Cambridge Analytica + Psyops + The Beast

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
I don’t consider myself right wing, but given the amount western meddling in Russian affairs, what goes round comes round.
This is why luka's comment about the "conspiracy theory" (which looks a rock-solid fact from where I'm sitting) being "irrational" is so odd. What could be more rational, on an emotional level, than Russians wanting revenge on America for winning the Cold War? Not to justify it or say it's OK, but there's no mystery in why they'd want to do it.
 
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luka

Well-known member
Staff member
im not suggesting Russia doesn't do a bit of shit stirring, im just very sceptical about its level of influence
 
How could you know? It isn’t yer classic mind control, more subtle and insidious and messy than selling a particular worldview or an understanding of events, it’s influencing and fooling the right people, saying this over here and that over there, spreading confusion and mistrust.. difficult to measure (why they seem to get away with it) too collaborative and multi faceted, through several layers of agents, amplifying and suppressing... the actual content spurted out at the end often says little about the intention of its creator.. and is often tailored to its target while managing to make them feel like they’re on a process of discovery, research. It’s next level stuff and it’s causing a meltdown
 
well yeah, and how could I know? I’ve only read a few articles on the internet about it. Should I trust them? Semantic apocalypse or something
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
im not suggesting Russia doesn't do a bit of shit stirring, im just very sceptical about its level of influence
Clinton won the popular vote in 2016, remember, and would have won the election were it not for three states where Trump's margin was smaller than Jill Stein's share of the vote. And the Brexit result was 52/48. It wouldn't have taken a lot for both outcomes to have been different.

And whether or not it definitely made the difference isn't really the issue. The fact is that they attempted to influence it, and it certainly had some effect. That is enough to cast doubt on the legitimacy of each vote regardless of the outcome and to ratchet up the already severe cultural divisions in Western countries. That, far more than putting Trump in the White House or bringing about Brexit (not that Putin wasn't pleased with both those outcomes, I'm sure) is the real end game.

It's funny, for someone so dedicated to seeing spies and assassins in every shadow, you're as trusting as a newborn lamb with respect to certain issues. Maybe that just comes from your paradoxical attitude towards evidence, I dunno.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
it suits all sorts of people to pretend Russia is far more powerful than it really is. i think it's a load of bollocks myself.
 

WashYourHands

Well-known member
The army of social media bots is one strand of hybrid warfare. Having open, democratic (on paper) societies makes them easier to exploit, particularly when so much of western life and arguing debate is conducted on social media platforms.

They’ve been adept at exploiting the weaknesses in these systems more and more in recent years, compounded by our own sides going at it during election and referendum run ins. It’s a toxic mix, but one we’ve essentially allowed to happen due to complacency. The global anarchism of nation states, corporations and incredibly wealthy individuals, all with their own specific agendas, indicates it can only get worse.

If someone had shown me footage of the US from this year ten years ago, I’d have balked at that fact. But here it is. Cambridge A are just the tip of the iceberg - eg it isn’t beyond the realms of possibility that a foreign agency hacked the Iranian defence sector and enabled the shooting down of that Iranian airliner recently. Would be an extremely efficient method of denying liability, exposing the Iranian military as inept and forcing that regime to accept liability in killing its own citizens.

The Beast on all sides is alive, well and sipping the finest cognacs as we type.
 

version

Who loves ya, baby?
eg it isn’t beyond the realms of possibility that a foreign agency hacked the Iranian defence sector and enabled the shooting down of that Iranian airliner recently. Would be an extremely efficient method of denying liability, exposing the Iranian military as inept and forcing that regime to accept liability in killing its own citizens.
Stuxnet was thirteen years ago. God knows what they've built since. One of the whistleblowers in Zero Days claimed it was the tip of the iceberg and they were embedded in pretty much every Iranian system and able to send them back to the stone age if necessary.

 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
it suits all sorts of people to pretend Russia is far more powerful than it really is. i think it's a load of bollocks myself.
By the same token, it clearly suits Russia to pretend to be weak and helpless.
 

WashYourHands

Well-known member
Bears are carnivoran mammals of the family Ursidae. They are classified as caniforms, or doglike carnivorans. Although only eight species of bears are extant, they are widespread, appearing in a wide variety of habitats throughout the Northern Hemisphere and partially in the Southern Hemisphere.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
I can't believe Tea still takes anything Luka says at face value.
The thing is though, regardless of the extent to which luka is being sincere or taking the piss, he's illustrating very nicely a way of thinking that a very, very large number of people are clearly inclined towards. This is what Russia has been pressing on for years and years, and it's bearing fruit. It's very clever and has no obvious solution, because it's using the openness of liberal societies against them. The knee-jerk response is to simply ban certain information channels, but that's not really a good look when you're criticising Russia (or China etc.) for being an oppressive authoritarian state where the government controls what people are allowed to read, watch and say.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
The thing is though, regardless of the extent to which luka is being sincere or taking the piss, he's illustrating very nicely a way of thinking that a very, very large number of people are clearly inclined towards. This is what Russia has been pressing on for years and years, and it's bearing fruit. It's very clever and has no obvious solution, because it's using the openness of liberal societies against them. The knee-jerk response is to simply ban certain information channels, but that's not really a good look when you're criticising Russia (or China etc.) for being an oppressive authoritarian state where the government controls what people are allowed to read, watch and say.
im just saying this is too neat and too glib and too incurious. it gives you a convenient super-villian on which to pin the blame for any political or cultural development you don't like the look of. How it happens, how anything happens, is a good question to ask but if the answer is Russia then you're not thinking hard enough. imo. there are any number of agents and alliances and groups and saboteurs, all pushing for their own agendas, many of them working covertly. many of them lavishly funded. what they want and how they plan on getting it is not entirely obvious. we know there is a game in progress but beyond that???

having said that it's been very, very interesting the last few years and i don't understand them any more than you do.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
luka: My stomach is growling and I feel faint.
luka's mate: You're starving and should eat something.
luka: No! That's far too neat and glib! There must be a more complicated, interesting and glamorously evil explanation!
 
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