padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
there's no there there with like 99% of this

even if I didn't know any contextual details I would definitely assume upon hearing this it was the product of the kinda bland gentrified "good" taste luka mentions

it is what it is
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I vaguely remember liking a couple future garage tracks when it was new

but then otoh that was before I deep dived back into actual garage and discovered it was (unsurprisingly) like 10000x better

not that I blame the producers or anything, you can only be a product of your particular historical moment
 

pattycakes_

Well-known member
dubstep was a false genre. it's not going to stand the test of time. there was a gap at the end of dnb where something new was needed and dubstep plodded in in a shroud of skunk smoke and pseudo deepness. gratuitous & boring, it managed to hoodwink a desperate moment that it was actually a music, when at best it was a formulaic set of sktetches that should have stayed in the margins of the school books it was written in. the fact that many of the players so easily jumped ship to climb aboard the house and techno bandwagons speaks volumes. :x:
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
top button on your shirt done up. huf cap. limited release trainers from footpatrol. hand stitched japanese 'streetwear; hoodie. ' goldsmiths replaces pirate radio as training ground and academy. the home counties displace london.

none of which makes the music bad necessarily. just noting that the gentrification of neighborhoods was accompanied by the gentrification of the fashions and the music (and, to some extent, the food) endemic to those neighborhoods.

i remember going to a couple of nights with Joy Orbison, Floating Points and the rest when they took over - cos I do like some of the music - and the atmosphere was fucking grim after the joys of UK funky. Back to what i was told nightclubs were like before acid house, joyless

i'm not a dubstep fan either, but the worst night at Fwd was surely 1000 x better than that
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I wouldn't really defend post-dubstep as a lot of it has aged badly and wasn't even that great at the time.

Dubstep circa 2006/7 I do defend, although I don't think it has aged very well, perhaps because it was such a contextually effective music - depending on sub woofers tickling your nose and so on. Garage e.g. sounds great on a bluetooth speaker - and is also joyful music, by and large, unlike dubstep, which isn't the sort of thing you wack on at an afterparty.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
i like this one, tactile drums. spliffhead garage with those voice samples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SmYdE_XbJo


tbf i hate the post-dubstep crowd not some of the music as such which was decent deep club music if very transitory. i mean there has always been a working class connoisseur element to uk dance music. like ambient jungle wasn't quite the gentrification of jungle, not until a while at least. but that wasn't really post-dubstep i wouldn't liken it to rare groove clubbing for all its exclusivity, the ramifications of post-dubstep are arguably much worse.
 
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thirdform

Well-known member
I wouldn't really defend post-dubstep as a lot of it has aged badly and wasn't even that great at the time.

Dubstep circa 2006/7 I do defend, although I don't think it has aged very well, perhaps because it was such a contextually effective music - depending on sub woofers tickling your nose and so on. Garage e.g. sounds great on a bluetooth speaker - and is also joyful music, by and large, unlike dubstep, which isn't the sort of thing you wack on at an afterparty.

garage isn't joyful in the rave sense it's smooth and sexy that's different to being joyful. happy hardcore was joyful hence being really melancholic and whats why i find the comparison of wobble to it a bit odd. Wobble was like shy fx wolf extended into infinity.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
dubstep was a false genre. it's not going to stand the test of time. there was a gap at the end of dnb where something new was needed and dubstep plodded in in a shroud of skunk smoke and pseudo deepness. gratuitous & boring, it managed to hoodwink a desperate moment that it was actually a music, when at best it was a formulaic set of sktetches that should have stayed in the margins of the school books it was written in. the fact that many of the players so easily jumped ship to climb aboard the house and techno bandwagons speaks volumes. :x:


well uk funky crowds jumped ship to tech house bandwagon. so i don't think tthat's the problem per se. I think with the post-dubstep boys they fetishised the berghain end of techno rather than taking pride in their own weird and fucked up techno history. no magnetic north, no sativie, coin operated, uglyfunk etc. which was inevitable because the post-dubstep boys defined themselves against rave, a conscious disownment of the childs impulse to play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRpzJ-C1qZM
 

version

Well-known member
I wouldn't really defend post-dubstep as a lot of it has aged badly and wasn't even that great at the time.

Dubstep circa 2006/7 I do defend, although I don't think it has aged very well, perhaps because it was such a contextually effective music - depending on sub woofers tickling your nose and so on. Garage e.g. sounds great on a bluetooth speaker - and is also joyful music, by and large, unlike dubstep, which isn't the sort of thing you wack on at an afterparty.

I can't really listen to it anymore, some of it was great though - Skull Disco, DMZ, Skream, Toasty, early Hyperdub gear, Pev and a few others are still good if I'm feeling nostalgic.
 

Leo

Well-known member
I can't really listen to it anymore, some of it was great though - Skull Disco, DMZ, Skream, Toasty, early Hyperdub gear, Pev and a few others are still good if I'm feeling nostalgic.

same. would never get rid of my dmz or skull disco singles but also don't feel compelled to listen to them very often...but when I do, I still like 'em.

being on this side of the ocean with no real life interaction with the cultural element (the clubs, the dress, the personalities, the gentrification, etc.), I'm experiencing the music solely on a musical level and my perceptions aren't negatively impacted by the baggage. I like many of the Shackleton, pearson sound and boddika releases purely for the sound design.
 

blissblogger

Well-known member
it's perfectly pleasant listening music

but doesn't bang, slam, brock out or any of them words

that's not how it functions for the people for whom it functions

fundamentally because they have no real need of that in their lives

not necessarily a criticism... but there are deep structural reasons why there's a feeling in jungle or UKG - or dancehall or trap - that isn't in this kind of music, or its cousin here in LA, the whole Brainfeeder / Low End Theory scene

the confusion comes about because some of the producers will use elements that refer to or originated with those brock out kinds of music, they tap into that history
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
the confusion comes about because some of the producers will use elements that refer to or originated with those brock out kinds of music, they tap into that history
There's a load of 2010-2012 stuff on my mp3 player at work for some reason, and I think that a lot of this stuff works best and still stands up when it's played the way that people like Dusk and Blackdown or Oneman or Ben UFO were playing it then - in the mix as another element bouncing off a load of more straight up funky and grime and garage. On the other hand, I also saw a bunch of sets out around that era that were strictly post dupstep / future garage / whatever and were fucking hard work - just endless moody monochrome two-step with no real release of tension.
 

pattycakes_

Well-known member
well uk funky crowds jumped ship to tech house bandwagon. so i don't think tthat's the problem per se.

that's not that much of a jump though, imo. the dubstep to house/disco and techno leap felt way less sincere. total bandwagon vibes, and i'd expect no less from the goldsmiths crew.

I think with the post-dubstep boys they fetishised the berghain end of techno rather than taking pride in their own weird and fucked up techno history.

yeah, and it feels just as cold/tasteful/boring as berghain. top button done up replaced with all black extra long t.

ymmv

it's perfectly pleasant listening music ...

very diplomatic :)
 

thirdform

Well-known member
ultimately though rave like all dance scenes is conservative. routinised and circumscribed pleasure. a need created to intensify the extraction of surplusvalue. no wonder so many ravers just end up being subsumed as a byproduct of the economy. an illusory community, with the classic error of social production, the debris is fucked off into the mental institution, the prisons. there was never anything radical about the counter-culture. the very separation of the empirical and the absolute was always seen as transhistorical *not how the two interact and shape each other within class society*

it was always death in life. they could not realise that the human being is dead and is nothing more than a ritual of capital because they were very much part of that modular process.
 
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thirdform

Well-known member
however rockism and rock aesthetics are far more modulated than rave. at least in rave there is a hankering for the re-formed human community. in rock there is none of that. post-dubstep in a way is the real and not formal transposition of rock values onto dance music.

*by rock i don't mean anti-rock guitar music or whatever.* I mean the middlebrow shit.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
the problem is we cannot really conceive of a communistic literature. even oral storytelling is no longer an integral element of society but an aesthetic choice.
 

luka

Well-known member
thirdform was a fairly prominent post-dubstep producer and dj.... he has a degree in post-colonial art-dealership studies from goldsmiths. it's where he got his intro into the scene. he still does the top button on his shirt up. it's just a reflex action at this point.

we met at a peckham rooftop bar in 2010. turned out we shared a coke dealer. got talking, one thing led to another.... and i invited him to sign up to the forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QajI4ChGaU
 
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