DannyL

Wild Horses
Watching the interview at the beginning of the thread has reminded what a terrible, terrible cunt Piers Morgan is though. So I'm grateful to them for that if nothing else.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Interesting to think about Oz vs Bastai - see the Twitter I linked to upthread. I know Oz has recently got a job as Producer and News Editor for Sky. Perhaps there's something about having an economic foothold in "old media" that keeps you off this clicks for pay leftwing shockjock roundabout, that being the business model of BOTB shit like the Canary.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Interesting to think about Oz vs Bastai - see the Twitter I linked to upthread. I know Oz has recently got a job as Producer and News Editor for Sky. Perhaps there's something about having an economic foothold in "old media" that keeps you off this clicks for pay leftwing shockjock roundabout, that being the business model of BOTB shit like the Canary.

Yes exactly. You can see Owen Jones as straddling both these models. He did well getting his first book out when he did - I think if he'd been published later he would be more reliant on social media than he is.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Whereas Laurie Penny followed shortly after Owen and now seems largely dependent on crowd funding through Patreon - the new model.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Interesting to think about in light of what was talked about upthread, Jones having to demonstrate his ideological purity etc, having being a Corbyn apostate and still working for the filthy right wing press in the form of The Guardian. Seems like there's a weird slippage going on between income/celebrity/personal brand/political positions. Can you have personal positions that are different from your brand anymore? Or is it all subservient to clicks and likes? Gets stranger and stranger the more you think about it.
 
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john eden

male pale and stale
Interesting to think about in light of what was talked about upthread, Jones having to demonstrate his ideological purity etc, having being a Corbyn apostate and still working for the filthy right wing press in the form of The Guardian. Seems like there's a weird slippage going on between income/celebrity/personal brand/political positions. Can you have personal positions that are different from your brand anymore? Or is it all subservient to clicks and likes? Gets stranger and stranger the more you think about it.

I think you can as loads of people read the Guardian and like Owen Jones and consider themselves left wing. For Owen the social media side is a exactly that - a sideline. He needs it to promote himself as being on the left wing of the Guardian (and for research).

Whereas with Laurie Penny she'd be screwed if her fanbase on social media deserted her. Ditto the Novara types, which is why they had a major freak out last year when they platformed someone who turned out to be a rapist and everyone turned on them.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
ash sarkar is the girl that fucks like a champion according to her twitter bio and has a very big university lecturer voice. a few years ago i thought she'd be cool with hanging out with the rude boys and bad girls in the pub but these days im not so sure. yeh the person who was playing grime at the time probably wasn't her, shes like my age. amazing how far shes got whilst im toiling away here with medical health services.

danny, i have little time for oz khaterji either. his whole thing is all rebels are great everything anti-assad is good. which completely sidesteps stratification and class. in favour of clickbait, well.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
I disagree with you re. Oz - he'd be happy to publicize negative stories about the rebels if they're true, but we are in a firehose of falsehood situation (the Syrian rebel commander found guilty of war crimes recently i n Germany would be a case in point - sure he mentioned that). Be interested to hear how/why you think class and stratification are relevant. Not saying they're not, just like to hear your perspective.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
So I don't derail the thread completely - to state the obvious, what's striking about this is the relation between the dependence of the journalists and how it might compromise what they write and publicise. What if they want to do some edgy, or challenging, like publish Peter Sotos, or even something really out of order, like disagree with the big JC? What then?
 

thirdform

Well-known member
well the standard things, the rev is split between conservative islamists which are more integrationist and state centred and the democratic groups and local assemblies.

I personally wouldn't have given support to JaI or al-zenki earlier this year either. I generally follow Karadjis' blog on this.

I stopped following him because all he did was attack tankies, as if all of us have time to comb through that shit. annoying and narcissistic, suitable for an ex-swp journalist i guess.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
So I don't derail the thread completely - to state the obvious, what's striking about this is the relation between the dependence of the journalists and how it might compromise what they write and publicise. What if they want to do some edgy, or challenging, like publish Peter Sotos, or even something really out of order, like disagree with the big JC? What then?

they can disagree with the big JC. It's just the ruling class still need that old dog in these turbulent times. there is a crisis of the legitimacy of the state and it serves them to disipate all left enrgies into labour. We were in a better position in 2014.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
The description of the desperation of these pundits and their fragile grip on paid writing work and dependence on social media rings true and makes me feel like it would be horrible to be part of that writing racket right now.

I observe it from the sidelines, and don’t get the feeling that Owen Jones has escaped despite getting his PhD thesis published in the nick off time. He was clearly spooked by the barrage of abuse he got for questioning the Corbyn project before the election, and his post-election Mea Cupla has morphed into abject propagandising, back-pedalling and obfuscation. It’s both amusing and painful to watch. He has got more shrill and silly the more he has been undercut by this New Left gang. (He is not the only one, though, on any or either side; it’s all got bad and embarrassing.)

Even on something I agree 100% on (the House of Saud) his tone and tactics still annoy me.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Been looking at Aaron's Twitter last few days. One criticism I've read is that they basically provide cover for the Labour Leadership's crap Brexit position. Quite fun to read the sour grapes after today's march.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
The description of the desperation of these pundits and their fragile grip on paid writing work and dependence on social media rings true and makes me feel like it would be horrible to be part of that writing racket right now.

I observe it from the sidelines, and don’t get the feeling that Owen Jones has escaped despite getting his PhD thesis published in the nick off time. He was clearly spooked by the barrage of abuse he got for questioning the Corbyn project before the election, and his post-election Mea Cupla has morphed into abject propagandising, back-pedalling and obfuscation. It’s both amusing and painful to watch. He has got more shrill and silly the more he has been undercut by this New Left gang. (He is not the only one, though, on any or either side; it’s all got bad and embarrassing.)

Even on something I agree 100% on (the House of Saud) his tone and tactics still annoy me.

Have you seen this?! https://www.agitpod.com It may annoy and amuse you. I'm listening now and it's mesmerisingly bad apart from when the guests are speaking - I think he's trying to appeal to 'the kids' - even when discussing things I'm interested in (Podemos). Ash Sarkar is a guest on one episode, in fact.
 
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thirdform

Well-known member
i sometimes think i should start up a left communist/ultra-left podcast but it would be done in more of a dialogue as opposed to asking questions format. so like left communism in general only the angsty autodidact nerds would take notice.
 

luka

Well-known member
anything branded marxist or communist automatically excludes itself from the conversation. if you wanted to spread those ideas you'd do it under a different name and use a different terminology.
otherwise people won't come near you. it's like a leper's bell.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
anything branded marxist or communist automatically excludes itself from the conversation. if you wanted to spread those ideas you'd do it under a different name and use a different terminology.
otherwise people won't come near you. it's like a leper's bell.

Sort of. you attribute too much thought to ideas as platonic forms like the young hegelians, comrade lucius! but yes what you say is largely correct. I also don't believe in leftwing propaganda, whatever that is supposed to mean. forge the monolithic revolutionary theory with a colonel hard as steel and clear as glass but what's the point of activisty propaganda? it's always inevitably gonna get co-opted by the labour party or other bigger dogs.
 
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luka

Well-known member
i remember reading an article by her saying her two favourite things are vybez kartel and ezra pound so she cant be all bad. just a bit uncomfortably self conscious maybe. not my world though so luckily i dont have to pay attention.
 
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