Cultural Cowardice
- Thread starter sadmanbarty
- Start date
-
- Tags
- ballin at the mall barty's mum's cunt again. cheeky tags chopped and screwed clairs corpse's mates crybabies disco-gs fig rolls fuck off fucking youtube goldsmiths fanny high fashion mood music john eden was talking sense kill for love luka is a crypto-jungian luka is an oxford don mystic snakes sassy si see you on the other side spunk ritual steve madden handbag the beatles are worse than hitler
shiels
_
Market dynamics are probably the most common, or reliable arbiter of innovation we have here? in a perverted way you could posit what’s being called cowardice as a calculated robbery and a trangressive act of innovation. Innovation as betrayal. Norm violation is rewarded
So the cowardly innovation is an inversion of what was seen as heroic in the prior aesthetic system. To be very simplistic with nuum stuff:
Jungle holy velocity violated by garage slowing slink
Garage warm slink violated by eski cold snap
Grime war violated by DMZ peace
Etc
etc
Whole dance love in violated by drill?
The calcification of taste along any linear progression, reaches the ‘zone of fruitless intensification’ becomes stifling and gets undermined by a transgressive act of cowardice/bravery to unlock the energy, mutate into new forms to survive in a new populace, working class to middle class, black to white, old to young
This can happen through a splitting innovator closed off from a scene (wiley), or a diluter/ refiner with the sensibilities / lack of morals / access / however you want to frame that... to bring a sound to a much wider audience (caspa rusko)
That’s quite a micro level example. But it’s about violating, betraying the lineage. a move that builds on and opens up the principles or formal innovations of any given scene - or value system operating along a vector of aesthetics - to a new audience that would have been closed off prior to the act of cowardice/betrayal because of identity factors, demographic factors, taste/execution factors
So the cowardly innovation is an inversion of what was seen as heroic in the prior aesthetic system. To be very simplistic with nuum stuff:
Jungle holy velocity violated by garage slowing slink
Garage warm slink violated by eski cold snap
Grime war violated by DMZ peace
Etc
etc
Whole dance love in violated by drill?
The calcification of taste along any linear progression, reaches the ‘zone of fruitless intensification’ becomes stifling and gets undermined by a transgressive act of cowardice/bravery to unlock the energy, mutate into new forms to survive in a new populace, working class to middle class, black to white, old to young
This can happen through a splitting innovator closed off from a scene (wiley), or a diluter/ refiner with the sensibilities / lack of morals / access / however you want to frame that... to bring a sound to a much wider audience (caspa rusko)
That’s quite a micro level example. But it’s about violating, betraying the lineage. a move that builds on and opens up the principles or formal innovations of any given scene - or value system operating along a vector of aesthetics - to a new audience that would have been closed off prior to the act of cowardice/betrayal because of identity factors, demographic factors, taste/execution factors
qwerty south
no use for a witticism
the whole "big beat" thing of which fatboy was the posterboy was pretty much just uptempo hip hop without rapping , which made it palatable to the polite middle classes and beyond. almost as bad as the 90s mo wax sound, of which dj shadow was the posterboy which was was a lot of downtempo hip hop mostly without rapping .
it was all shite.
it was all shite.
Last edited:
linebaugh
Well-known member
The rhythmic language of todays hip hop isnt anything like 80's production. 80's production was an off shoot of dance music. It took you on a forward march past a chronological sequence of samples and sounds, like an old mill carnival ride that shuttles you down a tunnel, each turn an animatronic side show springs at you from the walls. Eric B and Rakim are considered the first modern rap artists because they heightened the swing feeling in the rhythm with accents on the off beat and third when the snare hits- the stuff that locks you into that tight, characteristically hip hop head nod. They also shortened the sample lengths, and production looked less like a stacking of distinct sounds but an intricate arrangement of concise loops that interlock and reinterpret the others to form one unified master loop. The chronology of 80's production gives way to a new feeling of timelessness and A parts and B parts are replaced by a revealing and concealing of the master loop. This is essentially where were at today- the best trap beats have that same hypnotic, clockwork feel of the best boom bap beats.
I think the closest modern comparisons to 80's hip hop was the early/mid 2000's, the Timberland and Pharrell and early Kanye production with bang-on-a-cafeteria-lunch-table rhythms and a bend for wacky sounds- bed springs, water drops, mouth sounds and etc.
Last edited:
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
It's Yours is the only modern hip-hop song of the 80s. Everything you described is New Yorker music, it has nothing to do with American hip-hop's evolution.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
The rhythmic languages of 90s hip-hop via sampled drums were a false flag. Sampling was a false flag.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
*Thirdform vox* Coldcut? Bourgeois faux-dadaist Wankbritannica at it's finest. A complete Robin Hood cosplay attempt via the access to samplers and pastiche as cheeky detachment and lack of ideas masquerading as being compatriots to a Grandmaster Flash. Stuff like this is what leads us to celebrating the Drake East India company. Bad stuff.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
I give the impression a 2.5 personally but I'm lazy.
linebaugh
Well-known member
I love a nice sampled break beat. Don't see it as a lack of creativity or innovation. I think most that have got their hands on some gear find that 80's style production is pretty immediate and is stumbled upon almost accidentally while sampling is tricky. And even as sampling has waned the rhythm has remained.
I think that we even consider 80's hip hop 'hip hop' comes from the sampling that grew from it. Had hip hop never established itself through that I think we might just look at what we now call 80's hip hop as some disco/dance music subgenre.
I think that we even consider 80's hip hop 'hip hop' comes from the sampling that grew from it. Had hip hop never established itself through that I think we might just look at what we now call 80's hip hop as some disco/dance music subgenre.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
I disagree. A major problem is that rap's canon was written by New York and Los Angeles because those are the two major media access points in America, meanwhile America at large is... well insanely big.
This is the antithesis of Luka's theorems where constantly all of England is actually defined by London, which is actually defined by East London, which is further minimized focused into (effervescent gesture). America is too vast and things happen all the time where nobody notices. Inventions, innovations, and nobody cares. Much like the techno debates elsewhere on this forum, think of how much happened in these small pocket cities of America and how much was constantly being bounced back and forth along through the nation. Detroit's techno neighboring Chicago house, battling NYC's hip-hop, Miami's Bass (not to mention Atlanta's Bass) and LA's Electro/boogie. That happens on a much smaller and more easily disregarded scale in the UK because it's a significantly smaller population and smaller span of land which means the immediacy is so much harder, even with modern technology. Nothing can actually duplicate the ease of being in a physical space. So much of this country lacks the claustrophobia but is too schizophrenic for any display of Subjective Representation. Too many names, too many cities, too many faces, too many eyes.
Hip-Hop went a far way without the sampling all over the country and then eventually sampling went the way of the dodo. It's now a vanity flourish.
It's why Jungle is a dead end genre. Not because it can't innovate further upon itself (it can) but it NEEDS the sampled drum. Whenever these producers try to sculpt these fake tin robot drum sounds to avoid chopping 'the same old same old breaks' they just reveal skeleton tunes. Woebot was right to argue that Hip-Hop is the real lifeblood of jungle, but he didn't know what he was doing because he falls for the British novelty of mistaking Public Enemy as an exemplary of rap instead of being an anomaly.
This is the antithesis of Luka's theorems where constantly all of England is actually defined by London, which is actually defined by East London, which is further minimized focused into (effervescent gesture). America is too vast and things happen all the time where nobody notices. Inventions, innovations, and nobody cares. Much like the techno debates elsewhere on this forum, think of how much happened in these small pocket cities of America and how much was constantly being bounced back and forth along through the nation. Detroit's techno neighboring Chicago house, battling NYC's hip-hop, Miami's Bass (not to mention Atlanta's Bass) and LA's Electro/boogie. That happens on a much smaller and more easily disregarded scale in the UK because it's a significantly smaller population and smaller span of land which means the immediacy is so much harder, even with modern technology. Nothing can actually duplicate the ease of being in a physical space. So much of this country lacks the claustrophobia but is too schizophrenic for any display of Subjective Representation. Too many names, too many cities, too many faces, too many eyes.
Hip-Hop went a far way without the sampling all over the country and then eventually sampling went the way of the dodo. It's now a vanity flourish.
It's why Jungle is a dead end genre. Not because it can't innovate further upon itself (it can) but it NEEDS the sampled drum. Whenever these producers try to sculpt these fake tin robot drum sounds to avoid chopping 'the same old same old breaks' they just reveal skeleton tunes. Woebot was right to argue that Hip-Hop is the real lifeblood of jungle, but he didn't know what he was doing because he falls for the British novelty of mistaking Public Enemy as an exemplary of rap instead of being an anomaly.