thirdform

Well-known member
It's toxic. a form of oneupmanship social capital. we all use it subconsciously to big up people (with the loudist voices / I'm not absolving myself here) but that can mean not engaging with people properly or really having to think through what they say. or more prosaically it being halled out as a form of character judgment. It does not indicate that the post is actually useful, it's analogous to head nodding. this is why i propose that we get rid of the button so that more quoting, measured and thoughtful responses can be encouraged.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
i'd be sad if we did. it's a nice marker of people getting along. it's a way to show engagement without having to post. like everyone running around high fiving each other all the time. a big love fest
 

luka

Well-known member
I don't like it either. The tags are toxic in a good way. Ta is toxic in a bad way.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
i'd be sad if we did. it's a nice marker of people getting along. it's a way to show engagement without having to post. like everyone running around high fiving each other all the time. a big love fest


It can be that. it can also be the twitter equivalent of 'you liked so and so tweets so you must own up to it.'
 

thirdform

Well-known member
I'm also a strong believer that if we just wanted one liners and small non-commmittal posts we'd move to twitter or facebook or something like that.

5 well thought out posts are better than 15 provocative ones.

The high 5 dynamic doesn't really make sense in this context because A) in real life those happen in extraordinary and rare circumstances, not every 2 minutes. B) there's no body language to gauge it. C) it encourages short posts by its virtue. longer posts become discouraged. easier to constantly like short posts than go through long ones meticulously. this isn't a table in a beer garden after all.
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich
I wondered what it was when people keep saying that.... don't know how to use it myself but I probably wouldn't anyway cos you're all stupid.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
I loathe procedural democracy (because i know the proletarian doctrine and everything i say is scientific objective fact) but shall we put it to a vote this weekend?
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
please mods, don't do it.

it'll make dissensus feel like a less warm, less joyous, less friendly place.

it doesn't discourage substantive conversations. there haven't been any less (and may well have been more) proper conversations and posts since the button was introduced.

i don't think there is anyone getting offended at somebody's post being liked.

it's solely a nice thing with no downsides.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
please mods, don't do it.

it'll make dissensus feel like a less warm, less joyous, less friendly place.

it doesn't discourage substantive conversations. there haven't been any less (and may well have been more) proper conversations and posts since the button was introduced.

i don't think there is anyone getting offended at somebody's post being liked.

it's solely a nice thing with no downsides.

I believe you are trying to ingeniously sidestep the main issue here, by conflating the downside of the like button with an individuals personal offence (or lack thereof.)

whether so and so is offended at a post being liked is immaterial to my argument. what i am talking about here is this being used as an unofficial interpersonal power structure. person A liked x post but criticised Y post saying the same thing. therefore person a must have some hostility to person B. The button can encourage this as it's analogous to a swipe on an iPhone screen.

I am not going to cite examples here as this would be airing dirty laundry in public. I would rather people take my argument on its own terms.

as for dissensus being a 'less warm, less joyous, less friendly place' this is up to all of us. the like button hasn't prevented small petty beefs arising. if anything it's created unofficial stratifications on the forum. making somewhere joyous requires effort and sustained, thoughtful, and considered group participation, not approval and conformity. it also requires that sometimes things are left static, that there are periods of low, fairly casual activity that serve as recalibration. expecting the forum to be a constant energy field when we are all fairly knowledgeable about each others eccentricities closes off the forum to new people. it can feel like we are communicating in our own, isolated and closed off language.

But ultimately, in this situation, it is the majority decision that counts. in this situation putting things to a vote seems to be the most ideal option. We will continue to make our respective cases but whatever turns out to be the result we have to respect it out of discipline.
 
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sadmanbarty

Well-known member
i assume most users aren't reading any power dynamics into the like button. imagine most people see it as people being nice to each other and having fun.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
i assume most users aren't reading any power dynamics into the like button. imagine most people see it as people being nice to each other and having fun.

That may very well be the case. however just because the common sense says they don't exist, doesn't mean they don't.

Furthermore I am uncomfortable about making assumptions on behalf of most users because A) a significant amount of users just lurk. B) We haven't asked most users what their views are. I don't want this to turn into a faction fight. I would appreciate if droid, for instance, could elucidate on what he perceives to be the downsides of the button.
 
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droid

Well-known member
Meh. The usual - lack of engagement, laziness etc., but I think they are far outweighed by most of the points Barty makes. Its a quick acknowledgement of appreciation and also allows you to disagree with someone whilst giving them a respectful nod. I've seen this implemented on a load of forums and I really don't think its a problem at this scale. Perhaps if we had hundreds of users with factions competing for dominance it would be issue, but not in this context.
 
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