thirdform

Well-known member
No, I've never much liked old school US house, too many awful vocals. The more acid bleepy stuff I do quite enjoy. But, yes, mostly I prefer techno too.



Yes, to a very queer crowd. Without that I probably wouldn't like it half as much.

uh, no. That's not what I meant at least in the UK. A straight proper dance music commentariat crowd. those tunes are way too soft for gay techno parties where the techno is nosebleed.

In the US things might be totally different granted.

But in the UK the RA types got on him 'finally a queer house producer who sells our anxiety back to us' - like I said, I don't mind her exploiting that nich, it's just that as someone who used to go to disco and hardcore techno nights both with a mixed queer/straight crowd I don't really need to be told a lot of that stuff. A lot of it is like conceptronica in that regard, you have to read the interviews to get a hold on what she is thinking.
 
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subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
uh, no. That's not what I meant at least in the UK. A straight proper dance music commentariat crowd. those tunes are way too soft for gay techno parties where the techno is nosebleed.
Hi-energy gay male dance culture is all fine, but I didn't mean that. Hence I said queer (rather than gay) and actually meant rather more: queer, trans, genderqueer, drag, femme... and especially the intertwining of those identities, by people at the bottom of gender and sexual hierarchies.

But in the UK the RA types got on him 'finally a queer house producer who sells our anxiety back to us' - like I said, I don't mind her exploiting that nich, it's just that as someone who used to go to disco and hardcore techno nights both with a mixed queer/straight crowd I don't really need to be told a lot of that stuff. A lot of it is like conceptronica in that regard, you have to read the interviews to get a hold on what she is thinking.
No, I don't need to be told that stuff either, but it's good within the queer/trans family to hear it being said. As for the straight RA commentariat, you may be right. I don't really care about them.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Hi-energy gay male dance culture is all fine, but I didn't mean that. Hence I said queer (rather than gay) and actually meant rather more: queer, trans, genderqueer, drag, femme... and especially the intertwining of those identities, by people at the bottom of gender and sexual hierarchies.
Fair enough, though I know transfemmes into and who dj 170bpm+ hardacid and 190/220 BPM grinding industrial speedcore/frenchcore, it's one problem I have with dance music commentary being framed in sonically Masculine or Feminin terms, it just lets binary gender thinking through the backdoor again nowatimsayin.
 

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
Fair enough, though I know transfemmes into and who dj 170bpm+ hardacid and 190/220 BPM grinding industrial speedcore/frenchcore, it's one problem I have with dance music commentary being framed in sonically Masculine or Feminin terms, it just lets binary gender thinking through the backdoor again nowatimsayin.
Quite so. I've no idea what sonically masculine or feminine would even mean. Though note I didn't actually use either of those words. If you took "femme" to mean "feminine"... it doesn't ... or well, it's rather more complicated than that. And I didn't mean Terre's music was sonically femme anyway, whatever that might be.

And I too am partial to some relentless banging speedcore – and flashcore even more.

Also by gay I didn't just mean male gays.
Okay :)
 

woops

is not like other people
didn't this person also make 'roboter rubato', kraftwerk played on piano, sounds like it might be alright
 

pattycakes_

Well-known member
didn't this person also make 'roboter rubato', kraftwerk played on piano, sounds like it might be alright
Yeah, she did a couple of cover albums. Kraftwerk and Gary Numan. I think they're both solo piano interpretations.

Really good dj
seen her 5 or 6 times. always delivers. the blends are seamless, i never know any of the music so it's hard to tell where one track ends and another begins. dreamy, drifty. but with a subtle love bite.
 
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thirdform

Well-known member
seen her 5 or 6 times. always delivers. the blends are seamless, i never know any of the music so it's hard to tell where one track ends and another begins. dreamy, drifty. but with a subtle love bite.

ah yeah see I'm quite ambivalent about slow and seemless blends. even in techno, i only think like 1 or 2 people like dozzy can really pull it off. i think when jungle got too much into the blend is when it really lost its way, rather than it getting too ersatz or whatever, the music wasn't made so much for crossfader cutting and 20 slip spinbacks whilst holding the platter in 5 minutes.

In the dj arena i think thats our two differing value sets, I don't really like the progression of the mix but more its layering. for me it's not about resolving to a euphoric climax (pun intended!) but how you can get interlocking riddims or textures or discordant samples rub up against each other. I'm quite a fan of the trance in that sense, but more in the post-industrial sense.
 

pattycakes_

Well-known member
Let's fight!

her glitchy non-house concrete stuff on like mille plateau is the best. her house stuff is the ultimate whiteification but with some queer cred.
I'm not into glitch in general so while those albums are interesting, much like most experimental music, I listen once or twice and that shit gets shelved. Gimme the tunes. I reject the whiteification idea though. Are you gonna try to play it like house had no white people? or that the music isn't authentic because it's a white person? If it's that same tired old shit you and luka keep farting on about wrt the preacher samples etc, then yeah, they are there to make a comment on house and gender. If this does nothing for you then move on. For me they're just texture. I don't care if they've been used a million times. But I have to say that for me, she drops them in slightly different to the usual. In fact it's that slighty offness that really does it for me with her. She's clearly not happy with what happened to the scene. including the whitification. I'd say if the two of you ended up in a room together you'd probably find yourself agreeing more than disagreeing.

fetishised new york blackness that even hip house made obsolete.
What does that even mean?

in chicago they play their house music hard and fast.
The names Glenn Underground, Boo Williams, Cajmere, Mr Fingers mean anything to you? You're cancelling your own cred by making these statements. Chicago house is not one thing.

I mean Sprinkles built his European career on endless variations of this amazing salvational soul dub house tune with an earth shattering vocal. I kind of rate it, if she wants to milk white people dry then I'm all for it, but I reserve my right to be critical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD0c5KrkgXE&feature=youtu.be
Now this is a heavenly slice. Stingly. Ibadan was dope back then huh. I almost got a release on there.

the house/garage separation in the states is more territorial than musical. that's what so many people who say 'acclaim' from the right places miss.
you mean, uh, me? I was basically talking about LWE and a few other reliable blogs and mags from back then, also a bunch of forums were buzzing and then midtown won best album of the decade etc. maybe that's not good enough?

but if you look through 90s derick may sets or whatever there are new york tracks in there aswell.
so?

yeah, but most of her audience are dilettantes. you go to a sprinkles night and his crowd are 99% white who just think it sounds all edgey and groovie. whether she dj'd in the new york gay scene in the 80s and early 90s with a mixed crowd is a bit by the by in 2019.
Her sound is nowhere near edgy. The only reason the NYC career matters is she was there from the start and knows her shit. This often equals a good dj. Most crowds don't give a fuck and we know that.

I need to go through my bookmarks but I might dump some more proper house in here. we'll see.
there's a house thread that would be way better than this one. i'd be up for reviving it.

sprinkles wants to argue that strictly rhythm became strictly vocal but actually that songful rejection of unrequited love was there in house from day dot.
I think you missed the point with that particular line from the midtown intro. She's saying it became cookie cutter, formulaic, predictable. one of the titans of the scene sold out. you don't think she's saying strictly rhythm introduced vocals to house, do you?

as for hypnosis I don't understand why one would want it to sound organic when we are children of machines. the luddites broke machines so they wouldn't be deskilled and lose their jobs. they weren't anti-technology per se. but today?
Imagine that, some people like different things to you :rolleyes:

But in the UK the RA types got on him 'finally a queer house producer who sells our anxiety back to us' - like I said, I don't mind her exploiting that nich, it's just that as someone who used to go to disco and hardcore techno nights both with a mixed queer/straight crowd I don't really need to be told a lot of that stuff. A lot of it is like conceptronica in that regard, you have to read the interviews to get a hold on what she is thinking.
who gives a shit? And yeah, sprinkles is most definitely conceptronica, but done with class and skill.
 

pattycakes_

Well-known member
ah yeah see I'm quite ambivalent about slow and seemless blends. even in techno, i only think like 1 or 2 people like dozzy can really pull it off. i think when jungle got too much into the blend is when it really lost its way, rather than it getting too ersatz or whatever, the music wasn't made so much for crossfader cutting and 20 slip spinbacks whilst holding the platter in 5 minutes.
no shit, man! i like dreamy, you like to be pummelled. but we both like a bit of the opposite, too!

In the dj arena i think thats our two differing value sets, I don't really like the progression of the mix but more its layering. for me it's not about resolving to a euphoric climax (pun intended!) but how you can get interlocking riddims or textures or discordant samples rub up against each other. I'm quite a fan of the trance in that sense, but more in the post-industrial sense.
don't get me wrong, jeff mills clashing the fuck out of the beat was my baptism by fire into 4/4. throwing the records off the tables in time to get the next one on. i like more than one thing! but sprinkles is masterful when it comes to the smooth mixing style.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
gonna chomp on some sauced liver with onions and peppers kurdish style now will get to all your points soon, or in the weekend.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
What does that even mean?
It means that house got more weirded out, it wasn't solely (never was tbh) about trying to use electronic technology to replicate real instruments. if you want that get real instruments. obviously as you said chicago house is not one monolith but the djs would mix up the hip house with the acid with the vocal with disco sampling with the perculator stuff.

The names Glenn Underground, Boo Williams, Cajmere, Mr Fingers mean anything to you? You're cancelling your own cred by making these statements. Chicago house is not one thing.
Think you missed my point there. those records would be played around 130-135 bpm, hard and fast by house standards, loads of crossfader cuts, just listen to any gemini set from the late 90s. Same with DJ Sneak. very bumpy and to the point. it's not european techno is it, it isn't going to go that fast!

]you mean, uh, me? I was basically talking about LWE and a few other reliable blogs and mags from back then, also a bunch of forums were buzzing and then midtown won best album of the decade etc. maybe that's not good enough?
Yeah I mean the LWE/mnmlssgs/xlr8r types, not you in particular. people too afraid to go to a garage night where champagne is being flaunted, only when future garage got invented could they breathe a sigh of relief, finally a safe space for me and my scruffy clothes.

Her sound is nowhere near edgy. The only reason the NYC career matters is she was there from the start and knows her shit. This often equals a good dj. Most crowds don't give a fuck and we know that.
Most crowds don't give a fuck because they are generally mates with the djs, promoters, other promoters, or friends of promoters/djs. the internet has minimised that divide to a huge degree. Hypothetically of course, do you really think I'm going to go up to barty in a club (sorry for singling you out m8) and shout at him brandishing a bottle informing him that he played the most atrocious set that he should be hung, drawn and quartered am I? am I? I mean, I don't take no shit from anyone, but even that's a bit too far for me to go public in a club like that, my psychic ego would never survive. Otherwise many of my mates on the down low have told me in private how crap and boring so and so's set is.

I think you missed the point with that particular line from the midtown intro. She's saying it became cookie cutter, formulaic, predictable. one of the titans of the scene sold out. you don't think she's saying strictly rhythm introduced vocals to house, do you?
The names Glenn Underground, Boo Williams, Cajmere, Mr Fingers, DJ Sneak, DJ Rush, Ron Trent, Chez Damier, the whole guideance records posse, nightclub records, lectrolove, 8ball records, Derrick Carter, Spencer Kincy, Octave One, Kenny Dickson jr, Theo Parrish, Mike Huckaby, even Mad Mike's housier stuff, dj pierre's wild pitch mixes, (hell even Danny Tenaglia and the heller and farley boys in the UK) etc etc etc and I could keep going on mean anything to her? She's cancelling his own cred by making these statements. House is not one thing.

If anything, the 90s was the golden age for house proper as opposed to the formation of house/techno in the 80s where it was hard(er) to distinguish between the two.

Imagine that, some people like different things to you :rolleyes:
Sure, but it's like dnb producers wanting to make their music sound organic with synths. I mean, cool with me, just seems to be a waste of technology. set up a live funk band or something i dunno. that being said there are gradiants. ltj's warmer organic style was good until the end of 96 but then too many people thought that was the way to do proper music (oh no, we can't be doing with those yobbo chipmunks and speeded up ragga chatter at all.)

who gives a shit? And yeah, sprinkles is most definitely conceptronica, but done with class and skill.

I don't, but I don't buy into her or the dance music medias narritive.
 
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luka

Well-known member
Staff member
gonna chomp on some sauced liver with onions and peppers kurdish style now will get to all your points soon, or in the weekend.
Typical renegade posts his dinner here and not the appropriate thread
 

version

Who loves ya, baby?
Yeah I mean the LWE/mnmlssgs/xlr8r types, not you in particular. people too afraid to go to a garage night where champagne is being flaunted, only when future garage got invented could they breathe a sigh of relief, finally a safe space for me and my scruffy clothes.
That's like some weird semi-inversion of gentrification.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
That's like some weird semi-inversion of gentrification.
I have no idea why but sometimes the inexplicable urge comes over me to ask jo wiley on a date and maybe we might bone each other. I want to know how she feels about the daytime cookiecutter music she is drip feeding the intellistep audience. bet she hates it really and is a huge hard acid head.
 

pattycakes_

Well-known member
Think you missed my point there. those records would be played around 130-135 bpm, hard and fast by house standards, loads of crossfader cuts, just listen to any gemini set from the late 90s. Same with DJ Sneak. very bumpy and to the point. it's not european techno is it, it isn't going to go that fast!
But then you can find sets playing them at something coser to 120 too.

Yeah I mean the LWE/mnmlssgs/xlr8r types, not you in particular. people too afraid to go to a garage night where champagne is being flaunted, only when future garage got invented could they breathe a sigh of relief, finally a safe space for me and my scruffy clothes.
so what would be the ideal setup to you? genuine question

The names Glenn Underground, Boo Williams, Cajmere, Mr Fingers, DJ Sneak, DJ Rush, Ron Trent, Chez Damier, the whole guideance records posse, nightclub records, lectrolove, 8ball records, Derrick Carter, Spencer Kincy, Octave One, Kenny Dickson jr, Theo Parrish, Mike Huckaby, even Mad Mike's housier stuff, dj pierre's wild pitch mixes, (hell even Danny Tenaglia and the heller and farley boys in the UK) etc etc etc and I could keep going on mean anything to her? She's cancelling his own cred by making these statements. House is not one thing.
of course it isn't and she's very obviously talking from her own perspective. judgng by her usual stance i doubt she'd never have trouble with those kind of delusions of grandeur

If anything, the 90s was the golden age for house proper as opposed to the formation of house/techno in the 80s where it was hard(er) to distinguish between the two.
totally

Sure, but it's like dnb producers wanting to make their music sound organic with synths. I mean, cool with me, just seems to be a waste of technology. set up a live funk band or something i dunno. that being said there are gradiants. ltj's warmer organic style was good until the end of 96 but then too many people thought that was the way to do proper music (oh no, we can't be doing with those yobbo chipmunks and speeded up ragga chatter at all.)
ok gotcha, but hors for courses innit. sometimes the really soft n dreamy shit has incredible sound design going on. mike huckaby is a good example. but pretty much all of those you listed above have had their smoother moments and done something incredible. chez n trent also really amazing sound designers.


I don't, but I don't buy into her or the dance music medias narritive.
all good breh.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
so what would be the ideal setup to you? genuine question
that US house and UK 4x4 garage are basically the same house music, one is a bit more bumpier with a slightly more prominent reggae bassline and todd edwards influence, but it's still basically 'proper house music.' 2step i can understand that seems to be more a timbaland/homegrown vocalists/mcs like ms dynamite etc but on the 4x4 end it's like that really, few exceptions excluded of course.

people want to market their agendas to carve out their own safe spaces rather than mix with people they might not go near in every day life. I've never liked that attitude, it's like ronald reagan ain't it.
 

other_life

bioconfused
drenched with queer melancholy
late to this but had to point this out for some reason reading this
at a certain point i got really, really sick of feeling 'drenched with queer melancholy' and music designed to make me feel that way. it's not just midtown 120 blues. it's sky limousine, as well. it's screwtapes. it's actress.
it's the button pushing thing. the set-up zones.
linking this back to 'zone of fruitless restraint' and 'the hypnagogic illusion': 'drenched in queer melancholy'.
 
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