comelately

Wild Horses
Today's mandate for the trade talks with the US is pretty weird:

1) The deal's benefits have been analysed in a way they are refusing to do for the EU trade talks
2) They are explicitly willing to accept some things in this deal that they say are red lines for the EU trade talks (e.g. dispute settlement)
3) It is quite clear that any deal with the US will require 'trading away sovereignty' to some extent (USMC does have LPF to some degree)
4) The benefits of the deal are pretty negligible, so negligible as to be hardly worth doing tbh.

It really seems like the argument for Brexit is being undone in plain sight. Of course, that probably doesn't matter anymore except that it may somewhat force Brexiteers into a place where they kind of have to admit that they're just more comfortable being under US hegemony than EU hegemony. Infact, that seems to be all it would really achieve. Channeling Orwell again, Brexiteers are Outer Party members running the Ministry of Truth it seems.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
They're denying it but word on the street is that Brexit WILL be delayed - well trade talks extended, you know what I mean.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Obviously Brexit has taken a back seat over the last few weeks, both here and in general, but I'm sure you've all heard by now that the EU generously asked the UK if we wanted to take part in a Europe-wide ventilator procurement scheme, the government declined and then a Downing Street spokesman lied about having "missed an email"?

Meanwhile the ventilator contract has gone to noted Brexit supporter and Tory donor, James Dyson.

But remember, everyone knew what they were voting for, right?
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Do you think being in the EU would somehow have forced the Tory govt to take the EU's ventilators against their will and not reward their millionaire mates?
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Also has anyone seen anything from the ultra liberal ultra democratic EU denouncing the Hungarian state for sliding towards dictatorship?
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Do you think being in the EU would somehow have forced the Tory govt to take the EU's ventilators against their will and not reward their millionaire mates?
No, obviously not. That would be idiotic. That would be to treat Brexit as an isolated phenomenon rather than as part of a much wider reactionary populist movement that's put a government in power that's risking people's lives to maintain a ludicrous pretence of jingoistic self-sufficiency.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Also has anyone seen anything from the ultra liberal ultra democratic EU denouncing the Hungarian state for sliding towards dictatorship?
John, can I remind you, before you sink any further into this no doubt highly enjoyable Eurosceptic huff, that I have at no point ever held the position that the EU is God's Kingdom on Earth and beyond all criticism? :rolleyes:
 

luka

Moderator
I can't speak for John but one of the things that I find a bit wearisome and provocative is the non stop 'look at these idiot plebs, they'll suffer soon enough. They'll get their comeuppance. Then they'll be sorry!' thing. I don't know if that is the only thing he is reacting against but it makes me want to react to it often.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Believe it or not, I don't actually want anyone to die as a result of this, even pro-Brexit Tory voters. But I can't help feeling frustrated that we've gone into this situation much less well prepared than we could have been and that this was entirely predictable. If it's still going on in January when frictionless cross-Channel trade ceases then we could be in real trouble for food security, never mind medical supplies.

And if anyone in my family suffers because the gammon contingent thinks sticking two fingers up at Brussels is more important than food and medicine then yeah, I might well wish death on them.
 
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john eden

male pale and stale
Well you brought it up. :x:

Might be better to aim your frustration at those with power rather than the electorate.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Wow, Macron's risen from -40% to the dizzy heights of -20%. When was the last time the French had a president they didn't mostly hate?
 

droid

Beast of Burden
The question is: Why has the leader of the european country that's handled this most badly seen the biggest rise in popularity?
 
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