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IdleRich

IdleRich
Nothing to say about the actual point? ie the first stated aim of all PLCs is to maximise shareholder value... if AstraZeneca do that too - as they must - it doesn't make them any more sinister than any other company in capitalism... presumably you have a problem with that system?
 

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
Yes, I do.

Big Pharma gets collared over and over again for slapdash practices and mendacity, in the single-minded pursuit of the holy dollar.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
As do all other industries. The problem is not Big Pharma per se but a system which makes it a legal requirement to prioritise making the shareholders rich above being good at doing whatever it is the company is supposed to do.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I admit, in fact what I'm saying myself, is that capitalism is inherently problematic. What I take issue with is you suddenly clutching your pearls at the shocking revelation that pharmaceutical companies attempt to make money.

or they just want to maximise their profits, which is almost as worrying.

There is no "or" about it, they are legally required to do that as are all companies so to claim that that possibly being the case is almost as worrying as their knowing of a huge problem with the vaccine is weird. The former is absolutely standard practice, the latter would be disastrous, they can't really be compared.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Can I shock you? Some people are corrupt.

In other news: there may be some unintended consequences for some people who have taken the vaccine.

Does this mean we should have nothing whatsoever to do with people and never trust anybody? No.

Does this mean that nobody should take the vaccine? No.

Does this mean we should not visit the woods in case we get bear shit on our shoes? No.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
What you're (MB I mean) saying is either the companies know of a huge problem OR they are just acting normally. Which I guess is true as far as it goes but hardly revelatory.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
The non-zero chance of bad things happening, yes.

I remember seeing this documentary once about a guy who never did anything because he was sure that was the safest way of preventing bad things from happening. What actually happened was that an anvil fell out of the sky onto his head!

Or maybe that was a cartoon. For children.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Then @Mr. Tea contradicted himself by saying that obviously we know that the vaccines have very few expected long-term harms while also obviously we don't know because they're novel. :ROFLMAO:
Statement 1 was about vaccines in general, many of which have been in use for decades.

Statement 2 was about the vaccines developed against covid-19, which were developed last year.

Not actually that hard to distinguish these ideas. Unless of course you confuse them deliberately.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
The manufacturers are clearly aware of a potential downside that would wipe out any benefits from their having got involved in this enterprise...or they just want to maximise their profits, which is almost as worrying.
Conveniently ignoring the fact that AZ is providing its vaccine to poorer countries at cost price.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Oh yes, the one that gets banned somewhere new every week; one can only assume they have a few in stock.
Some governments have banned it because of pressure from superstitious reactionary ninnies, like some people I could name, some of whom have contributed (if that isn't too generous a word) to this very thread.
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
Any evidence of this?

Just to check, now that it suits you we should assume that government decisions on vaccines are always based on a careful, pragmatic assessment of the scientific evidence? It seems more likely to me that it's part of a plan to allow governments to have more lockdowns by slowing down the vaccine rollout. Or to sync up the vaccine rollout to the natural decline of the virus. Maybe they've realized that it isn't actually dangerous enough and their plan to sterilize the population with dodgy vaccines won't work if too many people take AZ rather than something properly nasty? Maybe AstraZenaca didn't pay their subs to the International Big Pharma Conspiracy this month and this is their punishment? Who knows?
 
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