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mixed_biscuits

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UK is unusual in that an apparentl
I feel that there is some kind of sloppy thinking with a lot of people protesting about "medical apartheid" cos I think that if there were a disease that certainly killed anyone who caught it and for which there was a vaccine that provided one hundred percent immunity, then the majority of those protesting would go along with only allowing vaccinated people in certain places. And already they do go along with vaccines for travel and so on. But it feels that the issue is more that they don't believe in the disease or the vaccine, or at least only partly, and the result is some kind of mixture of antivax covid-denial and inconsistently applied appeal to human rights.
It's like a load of half arguments have been put together and made into one whole... but that's not how these things work.
Strawman alert
 

mixed_biscuits

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You made up a hypothetical for which the policy might be justified but obv the question is, is it justified for this non-hypothetical and far less hazardous situation.
 

mixed_biscuits

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The gvt want it for social credit and/or surveillance but clearly no-one's concerned about that as long as the risk of contracting the plague can be lessened by some small amount in the process
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
You made up a hypothetical for which the policy might be justified but obv the question is, is it justified for this non-hypothetical and far less hazardous situation.
Two points though, I also included an actual in situation in which mots people do accept the policy... plus, in that hypothetical, I think that most people probably would accept the rule - are you telling me that you wouldn't?
So the point is, that people are lending weight to their "rights" protest from their antivax and covid-denying position. It's not a pure objection. Maybe it doesn't have to be... but I don't think that anyone can claim that it is. Strawman is not really the right term for you here.
 

luka

Well-known member
The gvt want it for social credit and/or surveillance but clearly no-one's concerned about that as long as the risk of contracting the plague can be lessened by some small amount in the process
this is the crux of it of course i was going to explain this to Leo but then i couldnt be bothered
 
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WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
Give it time. Business will default to some kind of more evolved testing in the not too distant future. If @Clinamenic wanted to earn bills, he’d develop more refined testing, easy to use kits. I don’t see the extreme end of the possible scenarios working out due to the range of Covid treatments improving, including non-vaccine compounds. Covid will be around for decades, so no-one with any sense is denying the practical issues of living with it

Problem is some people haven’t really experienced mental health hardship over an extended period of time, or if they have are in denial of it. The internet compounding isolation. Now there’s a wave of pent up emotion. Combine with conspiracy issues and might is right

There’s vigilance and there’s hyper-vigilance and then there’s fake hyper-vigilance. Where you hear a wolf whistle or rebuttal, wherever the focus sits at that moment is the nexion of this movement’s mode of operation. Deny, deny, deny, refocus on something else, which is what Kim Philby taught the Stasi
 

luka

Well-known member
my view is that it is not insane to fear some kind of social credit net closing in on us, that's been an obvious possible end-game for many decades now, a dystopian future, an attractor (to use a favourite from the constant escape glossary) that any particular development might seem to move us closer towards.

i also dont think its completely insane to beleive there is a horrible virus out there that large sections of society have made basically well-intentioned efforts to mitigate against.
 

luka

Well-known member
when you get into virus denial youre always likely to end up demanding nurses be lynched cos after all its hard to imagine a scam in which theyre not somehow complicit. but maybe they are all complicit and we should lynch them? these are issues we need to talk through as a group
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
when you get into virus denial youre always likely to end up demanding nurses be lynched cos after all its hard to imagine a scam in which theyre not somehow complicit. but maybe they are all complicit and we should lynch them? these are issues we need to talk through as a group
Yeah, exactly, this follows pretty much straight after you've accepted the premise that the virus is fictional doesn't it? If the virus is a total fabrication then really, we pretty much have to assume that the nurses are in on it. Well, I guess that there is a scenario in which the virus is made up and the nurses are somehow dupes... but it seems that it would have to be a very convoluted one.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Yeah, exactly, this follows pretty much straight after you've accepted the premise that the virus is fictional doesn't it? If the virus is a total fabrication then really, we pretty much have to assume that the nurses are in on it. Well, I guess that there is a scenario in which the virus is made up and the nurses are somehow dupes... but it seems that it would have to be a very convoluted one.
Same when you consider the number of people who'd have to be complicit in faking the Holocaust, the moon landings, the 9/11 attacks, Biden winning the election, etc.

But of course that's a discussion for another thread.
 

yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
was thinking it would be kinda funny if the vaccine turns out to have a long term lethal effect wiping out the west.
 

luka

Well-known member
was thinking it would be kinda funny if the vaccine turns out to have a long term lethal effect wiping out the west.
we were talking about this im certain only anti-vaxxers and the clinically paranoid will survive and breed. a bottleneck in population. its 99% certain at this juncture. almost no one will survive the vaccine.
 
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