Tricky vs. Goldie

Tricky vs. Goldie


  • Total voters
    21

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Don't understand this line of argument from you both. Tricky is not playing a character, he is what he is.

again, the channel 4-ification of that sound makes it impossible for us little uns to hear it as authentic, even it was.

a bit like some miles davis stuff that can only sound like pastiche film noir.
 

catalog

Well-known member
again, the channel 4-ification of that sound makes it impossible for us little uns to hear it as authentic, even it was.

a bit like some miles davis stuff that can only sound like pastiche film noir.

Yeah I do understand what you are saying now
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
tricky emerges from the same 90's attitude towards eclecticism that gave us nu metal and bill laswell. like those things it's something that hasn't translate going forward.

but perhaps the artistic potency for those who like it is that it did really capture a certain moment in the 90's. it bottled it in a way that makes it incomprehensible for the corpse's and thir'ds and barty's of the world.
 

catalog

Well-known member
I think for me it was trickys visual style of how he presented himself that made such an impact. He deconstructed black masculinity.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
again, the channel 4-ification of that sound makes it impossible for us little uns to hear it as authentic, even it was.

a bit like some miles davis stuff that can only sound like pastiche film noir.

that film noir stuff at least has a kind of slanky love hotel vibe to it. sipping martinis with a hot FBI agent. the mystery continues!
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Tricky is very sample based, but he puts his own stamp on things. I have no problem with him nicking from hip hop. He takes it elsewhere

Sure but you've confessed to not being that much into hip hop. which is fair enough. but maybe for you taking it elsewhere just reads as diluting the vitality for us. what Simon thought of Squarepusher et al. I don't fully agree (although i mostly do agree) there's a crass toilet humour element to some of Square's stuff which makes me giggle in a way tricky doesn't.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
@3rd who cares about the source? Music is a conversation no?

I mean I'm not accusing tricky of appropriation, just that he's a shite knock off of Jeru. the conversation seems to be one sided to me. tricky just mumbling away not listening like he's smoked too much weed at the party and is going to do a violent u-turn in mood and start laughing like those obnoxious stoners you would just (oh please god) leave the afters, this is not a question of how much now but a question of discipline.
 

catalog

Well-known member
Sure but you've confessed to not being that much into hip hop. which is fair enough. but maybe for you taking it elsewhere just reads as diluting the vitality for us. what Simon thought of Squarepusher et al. I don't fully agree (although i mostly do agree) there's a crass toilet humour element to some of Square's stuff which makes me giggle in a way tricky doesn't.

Fair enough I guess, but I think he injects vitality, literally keeps it alive. I discovered PE through tricky (and through spike Lee). Definitely went and found Eric b and rakim through him. And yeah, I do still prefer tricky to all of them
 

catalog

Well-known member
tricky just mumbling away not listening like he's smoked too much weed at the party and is going to do a violent u-turn in mood and start laughing like those obnoxious stoners you would just (oh please god) leave the afters, this is not a question of how much now but a question of discipline.

I mean, you're not wrong, but I like it! Don't know anything about jeru at all
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Fair enough I guess, but I think he injects vitality, literally keeps it alive. I discovered PE through tricky (and through spike Lee). Definitely went and found Eric b and rakim through him. And yeah, I do still prefer tricky to all of them

well this is the hip hop culture war isn't it. westwood vs def jux.. it made more sense in the late 90s/early 00s. not sure if it holds up to the same extent today.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
as in, street rap has gotten more childlike and pastoral when the more sensitive end of things was basically reserved for the indie boys in the 90s who knew they would never be able to develop the psychic armour to listen to rap unselfconsciously.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
in that sense i think a lot of older English b-boys getting into techno and jungle in the 90s was a much more dignified move than mo wax. they acknowledged their europeanness and embraced it, rather than adopting the prissy curatorialism of the bohemian blues expert.
 

the ig

Well-known member
inject / take away vitality is a bit missing the point though

it's got a sort of entropic power, a will to moulder all solid things

'deconstructed masculinity' indeed. what if masculinity was a rough, badly stitched sack of defenses? why not 'hip hop braggadocio' as a hollow mumble, not even filling it out adequately?

why not a weak angry boy, a helpful inverted succubus to his gf, feeding insistent, exhausted commands but her, 'stifled', 'thinking ahead of him'?

that thing they do, prompting, repeating each others phrases, whisper paralleling song, most thrilling thing in pop for 30yrs. makes me shiver and shake, makes me wanna cry.

a call-and-response pattern confined to the stuffy, consumptive space of self-for-other. finally, we're getting down and dirty in the beyond-fake-real, mirrored abode of intersubjective selfhood.

i tell ya, those two are genius...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c3/1c/37/c31c37f58decb2e4f121fcfd95abea56.jpg
 
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