Teach me about....

thirdform

Well-known member
It's the current of his thought which I consider completely to be without value.

he doesn't really have a current of thought though. his aim was to go against Marxism without understanding its criticism of philosophy as perfected religion, spirituality, whatever you want to call it.

So what happens is the orthodox believer is restored, and the gnostic is confined to the back room. the cold rationalist is the most conformist person.

The problem with capitalist realism as he formulated it was no real reckoning with the fact that Blairism was in no sense a new development but a tired old rehash of a century-old dynamic.

In the face of an economic crisis whose proportions continue to grow and shake ever more the planet, the ruling bourgeois class must turn to defensive measures. With an experience garnered from almost four centuries of domination, it knows the need of the moment: that of calling on those political forces whose obedience is unquestioned, but are able to radiate the goodness and assurance of a respected «progressivism».
At its disposition stands a social democracy that from across the arc of almost a century - if not more so, as we will see - has traversed diverse experiences, while conserving certain determinant characteristics, and playing a precise role with extraordinary obstinacy and invariance.

http://www.sinistra.net/lib/upt/intpap/pitu/pituccocae.html

This is what happens when you don't formulate a clean break with the SWP and the dregs of oxford leftism. Hopeless fruitcakes.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
stripes=Frenchman. Sexy, also a poet, but could have been a fisherman
trousers=too tight, last years model. Navy blue play it safe.
boots=hangover from fierce winter.

All in all, chic but simple. Sexually alluring but also intellectual.
 
So what happens is the orthodox believer is restored, and the gnostic is confined to the back room. the cold rationalist is the most conformist person.[/QUOTE

Can you expand on this a bit more? Sounds interesting but I don’t follow. Imagine you are writing for an 11 year old please.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
Third gets right pissed off when you ask him to explain. Take it from me I've learned my lesson. Take what you can out of it. Interpret it in your own way. They're koans.
 
Very attractive. Classic. Bald and sculpted beard and big glasses is a great look. Are they hiking boots? Very attractive.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Can you expand on this a bit more? Sounds interesting but I don’t follow. Imagine you are writing for an 11 year old please.

Rationalism is a principle of abstract mathematics, itself being a millennia long condensation of time sequences and accumulated human potential.

Otherwise people have mostly acted empirically, not rationally. the best case being that a significant amount of the bourgeoisie in revolutionary france sided with the counter-revolutionary Girondins and even royalists, even though the jacobins (sans the most radical babeufist wing) expressed their longterm class interests as a whole. and it shall neither shock us nor surprise us if a significant minority of the working class side with the bourgeoisie in the next global upsurge. experience and custome always trump calculation.
 
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thirdform

Well-known member
there will be no unvailinng or dispelling but cataclysms and great explosions when both the lower classes don't want to live in the old way (and what is key here, the ruling classes are unable to live in the old way.) That's why its important for communists to pass down the long thread for future generations as the enemy class will still survive in the collective cybernetic organism and attempt to reorganise itself, even when overthrown. As happened in all 20th C revolutions.
 
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kumar

Well-known member
the neuroses about taste have been around for centuries. you had people in the 1850s who would have gravitated to certain things because they marked you out as being relatively loose, unrepressed by your parents culture, and people who cultivated other tastes that signify their discerning appreciation of artistic merit etc.

like thirdform was saying you just reproduce that weird split by self consciously defining yourself against either pole.

but its far too late to undo this kind of brain damage, thats why i don’t want to get it in my head there is a holy place you can one day reach by stepping outside your conditioning, if only for 3 minutes, where “real listening” happens. the idea of “really listening” has been brilliantly marketed for so long that i’ll just feel inadequate otherwise. thats one of the funny things about the analogue purist thing you were saying, this desire to live out the lifestyle of a “real listener” as though that wasn’t a century long branding exercise.
 

luka

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Staff member
Again I don't really buy this thing where it's better not to try because in some way capitalism 'wants you' to try. That seems self defeating. Like saying I won't be physically fit cos capitalism 'wants me' to go to the gym
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Again I don't really buy this thing where it's better not to try because in some way capitalism 'wants you' to try. That seems self defeating. Like saying I won't be physically fit cos capitalism 'wants me' to go to the gym

we are all products of capitalism, that doesn't seem too relevant to me. capitalism is a relation of force, it has no ideas of own and nothing to reason with, except presenting all ideas as its own.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
My point isn't that we should give the time to everything, but we should be firm in our prejudices.

clinging to prejudices out of sheer tenacity for the sake of it seems to be the dickhead rock n roll/hippy/punk/subcultural thing where you think you're rebelling with nothing able to coopt your rebellion.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
the point is to assault culture. not embrace or scorn it but jam it.

It's why I think techstep would have had more potential than uk garage if it didn't commit suicide and go down the shitter by mid 98.

UK Garage scene (not the music) was the Tony Blair of rave. end of history. post-racial luxury. the new millennium dawn. the surrender the house music industrial complex. Quite good as things go actually, but you could just sense the little kids who would go onto pioneer grime with their pinched sneers of disgust, and I was all for that.

the 91-92 ardkore generation just cannot comprehend how much little our generation has to lose.
 
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kumar

Well-known member
i'm all about trying, try all day mate, i love trying. just not setting yourself up for failure with a self deceiving sense of debased inadequacy when you can't sustain whatever "real listening" is supposed to mean. granted no one has said that here. but putting on different hats, examining your armour from a new angle in the mirror, mind expanding experiments to better understand bohemian rhapsody, all great ideas.
 

luka

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Staff member
i'm all about trying, try all day mate, i love trying. just not setting yourself up for failure with a self deceiving sense of debased inadequacy when you can't sustain whatever "real listening" is supposed to mean. granted no one has said that here. but putting on different hats, examining your armour from a new angle in the mirror, mind expanding experiments to better understand bohemian rhapsody, all great ideas.

It's not about beating yourself up and it's not some form of all bran you have to eat everyday for breakfast
 

luka

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Staff member
It's just about recognising that our sense can get all clogged up and bunged up and our minds get all clenched and full of grot and its better when they're not and the encounter with music, or with a book, or a tree or whatever, helps us gauge where we are, and helps us get a sense of how to shift things and make them better
 

kumar

Well-known member
yeah corse thought thats what i was saying

but theres also the thing of that feeling when you happen to encounter, say, a bit of music where you squirm, seize up, hairs stand up, look around shiftily, make sure no one mistakes you for the kind of person who likes this! and maybe trusting that theres good reason for that reaction, pay attention to why, pull it apart, where do you locate it in your body etc rather than just "its music for the boys in your year who you didnt like"
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
This is a weird thread I can't even tell when people are arguing with me or agreeing with me
 
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