baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Straight males talk about gay clubs in nudge-nudge terms while not engaging with the idea that they might be worried about their own sexuality. Create long-winded thread about it.

Nothing else to see here.

Luka, drop the persecution complex. It was already enough the last time, when people were trying to be understanding of your psychotic outburst at thirdform and were trying to be nice to you, only to be met with hostility.
 

luka

Well-known member
Straight males talk about gay clubs in nudge-nudge terms while not engaging with the idea that they might be worried about their own sexuality. Create long-winded thread about it.

Nothing else to see here.

Luka, drop the persecution complex. It was already enough the last time, when people were trying to be understanding of your psychotic outburst at thirdform and were trying to be nice to you, only to be met with hostility.

Oh fuck off you fat cunt
 

luka

Well-known member
There's loads of interesting stuff to engage with in this thread. A ton of ideas and directions so how about pick up on some of those and say something interesting instead of trying to catch me out. Then we can have a conversation.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I appreciate you bringing your anger - it's more honest that way than the constant sniping. I'm not even taking the piss

I did pick up on something interesting, but we've been through this already.
 

luka

Well-known member
It's a huge topic and it's about us, who we are, what the human experience is comprised of. How social groups work and how we interact with one another. It's a gold mine.
 

luka

Well-known member
I would like to talk about the ideas in the thread. They're central to my life. I don't particularly want to get in a fight again. I don't enjoy it. I used to when I was younger but I'm not into it any more.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I don't enjoy it at all either, it's stressful. But I do think you deflect massively when you don't want to engage with something. I do it too, and you can tell me when I do

You're also really fucking patronising quite frequently, whether you're right or wrong. I find it tiring, especially when you have so much to say. You don't need to adopt that sneering tone. And that's not 'telling you what to do' or anything similar - it's just my opinion.

The ideas of course are central to my life too. And that's why I feel fucked off - when interesting ideas don't get engaged with, and then can't be discussed because this place is pretty normative in a lot of ways that are barely ever talked about.
 
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luka

Well-known member
We will talk about it for one hour. Whatever it is I'm avoiding. Let's laser focus on it mercilessly.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Oslo accords

1) Did either me or Luke say we wouldn’t go to a gay club? If so please quote where we said it.

2) when we spoke about “bunming”, were we satirising the pettiness of schoolyard machismo or genuinely saying that we’re scared of being anally raped by homosexual men (to paraphrase one or two users).

3) is it prejudiced to be a bit giggly as a straight man in a gay club (not that I said I would be as it happens), or for that matter to be Jacob reese mogg at a dancehall party or a middle class person at a millwall match or a white boy at a traditional African celebration or a man at a women’s institute meeting or an atheist on a church or white man in Hammersmith Palais?

4) were either my or Luke’s positions misunderstood at any point in the discussion?

5) were some unpleasant personal remarks made on both sides of the discussion?

6) in light of all this would anybody like to say that probably it was all a big misunderstanding or even say sorry for anything rude that was said (by all parties)?
 
But what is important is the ability to say, this is one of the things I sometimes feel.

This is what makes this place better than twitter for interesting discussions and should be defended. I do understand the need for hygiene around this stuff, and i understand that irresistable urge to call out. like when droid nipped certain things in the bud, patty getting a bit alex jones in the conspiracy thread, luka saying depressed people are annoying. but it's cool when people can be emotionally honest enough to explore thos little irritations, ignorance, prejudices, paranoia... uncomforotable and awkward and distasteful shit in a trusting group that respects their intellect and gives benefit of the doubt, understands and expands and contextualises and everyone learns. I think therapists call this 'holding space'

So my point here isn't to say "of course luka isn't homophobic!" the opposite in fact... it's to say of course luka is a little bit homophobic like we all are, don't we all feel that in certain contexts because of our conditioning isn't it interesting to be self aware and recognise it within us all and even be a bit playful with it and try and get over it together lads
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Again, I apologise for saying other users weren’t clever. It was petty of me.

I think Luke calling people “fat cunts” or whatever it was is unkind also.

Likewise, I hope that other people can reflect and apologise for any insults or mischaracterisations they put forward.
 

luka

Well-known member
He really annoyed me when I called him a fat cunt. I wouldn't usually do it. But I had to express myself so it was plain that I was very annoyed with what he said. I don't approve of calling people fat cunts as a rule.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
@Luka:

I'm tired and I have to go back to work, so I'll be brief and then I'll log back on later.

What, in my view, you avoided: the idea that a lot of straight men are particularly anxious about going to gay clubs, not just because they are in a different space (which, as we both said, people are often in, in a diverse society), and not because they fear being raped (imagine then how women feel 24/7), but because they have anxiety, conscious or not, about their own sexuality. I'm saying this descriptively, not in any moral or other sense. In my view, this is because sexuality is a spectrum and the idea of '100% heterosexual' is pretty laughable - but that's the kind of thing I wanted to discuss, because there is a diversity of views.

I don't ultimately care about the who's right argument, but I do care about this point, and I genuinely do not feel it got discussed.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
I’m determined not to let this be a full blowout. I’m not going to be in fucking quarantine without dissensus! Chased away by a virtual pitchfork mob screaming “witch” at me.
 

luka

Well-known member
But you know, I do think Shiels is right and that we have to defend this space to say these things. And of course also,acknowledge, as he says, the need for hygiene. And you know, is it getting too blokey? Has it crossed the line? Do we need to pull back? All that is part of it.
 
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