baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
2) when we spoke about “bunming”, were we satirising the pettiness of schoolyard machismo or genuinely saying that we’re scared of being anally raped by homosexual men (to paraphrase one or two users).

Oh ffs - sorry, I can't be doing with all this 'it's just ironic' bullshit. It's so lame and so dishonest.

On the rest, I'll reply later, and I probably don't have such strident views. But on that point, let's drag ourselves kicking and screaming into the modern age, please
 

luka

Well-known member
@Luka:

I'm tired and I have to go back to work, so I'll be brief and then I'll log back on later.

What, in my view, you avoided: the idea that a lot of straight men are particularly anxious about going to gay clubs, not just because they are in a different space (which, as we both said, people are often in, in a diverse society), and not because they fear being raped (imagine then how women feel 24/7), but because they have anxiety, conscious or not, about their own sexuality. I'm saying this descriptively, not in any moral or other sense. In my view, this is because sexuality is a spectrum and the idea of '100% heterosexual' is pretty laughable - but that's the kind of thing I wanted to discuss, because there is a diversity of views.

I don't ultimately care about the who's right argument, but I do care about this point, and I genuinely do not feel it got discussed.

Yes I think that's true. I said above fear of being secretly gay is an integral part of straight identity. As is a desire to be secretly gay. All that coexists in the throbbing breast of the straight man. But these are truisms, no?
 

Corpsey

call me big papa
You're right baboon - and that was why we were anxiously making jokes together, too, as a way of broadcasting to each other, assuring each other, "I'm not gay, honest!"

This definitely speaks to the subject of ego — what "I am", what "I am not". What I could be what I could not.

Partly dictated by genes partly by the world you're thrust into.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Oh ffs - sorry, I can't be doing with all this 'it's just ironic' bullshit. It's so lame and so dishonest.

On the rest, I'll reply later.

well it seems here's the crux of the misunderstanding. whether you accept that its just silly and tongue and cheek and playful or whether it's a self-aware acknowledgement of some of our more stupid, fleeting feelings or whether you think it's expressing, subconsciously or otherwise, genuine discomfort around notions of homosexuality and masculinity and so forth.

i personally find it a bit sad that i give people the impression it's the latter, but there you go.
 

luka

Well-known member
Oh ffs - sorry, I can't be doing with all this 'it's just ironic' bullshit. It's so lame and so dishonest.

On the rest, I'll reply later, and I probably don't have such strident views. But on that point, let's drag ourselves kicking and screaming into the modern age, please

Well this is what Shiels means by hygiene. And it probably does cross the line sometimes. Its a tightrope act like all these things. You can be too pious and equally you can be too boorish.
 

Corpsey

call me big papa
I remember I had similar feelings at Glastonbury festival on many occasions. Only it was hippies.

With hippies though there's a simultaneous repulsion and envy going on. Because I'm constitutionally unable to be far out, but I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm the arsehole for not being able to walk around a field with hundreds of thousands of strangers in it with my knob and bollocks out.

I'm scared of pretty much everyone for one reason or another.
 

luka

Well-known member
3) is it prejudiced to be a bit giggly as a straight man in a gay club (not that I said I would be as it happens), or for that matter to be Jacob reese mogg at a dancehall party or a middle class person at a millwall match or a white boy at a traditional African celebration or a man at a women’s institute meeting or an atheist on a church or white man in Hammersmith Palais?

That's right Corpsey there are all sorts of times when we feel socially uncomfortable, awkward, out of place, threatened.
 

luka

Well-known member
I've been in a lot of the situations Barty mentions and what tends to happen, more often than not, is people (those who "belong") sense you're discomfort and go out of their way to make you feel welcome and it ends up being a very positive experience.
 

luka

Well-known member
I've talked about my fear of Ireland and droid and his mates were so nice to me that I was able to get over it.

Again, as I keep,saying, these anxieties are largely irrational and dissolve on contact with reality.
 
With hippies though there's a simultaneous repulsion and envy going on. Because I'm constitutionally unable to be far out, but I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm the arsehole for not being able to walk around a field with hundreds of thousands of strangers in it with my knob and bollocks out.

I completely get this. They're 100% right the hippies, 100%. but its the aestheticization i can't connect with. i'm much more accepting of it in women now i think of it, hippy men can sometimes stir something aggressive and irritable inside (because i'm sexist and homophobic)
 

luka

Well-known member
I think part of it with hippies for me is the suspicion that they haven't been adequately traumatised. That the only reason they can act like that is they somehow fell through the gaps in the threshing machine and emerged intact. And I resent that.
 
The fact they're right about everything can make them condescending know it all cunts too. After an ayahuasca ceremony in english countryside a few years back everyone was sitting outside in the sun by a river on blankets eating fruit and playing shit music. It was lovely. I was kind of loitering a bit. Im wearing all dark clothes, big coat, trainers. This older woman in a flowy dress came over and sat beside me and said take off your shoes and socks and feel the grass beneath your feet. I didn't like that. Get tae fuck out of my sight. i'll do your drugs but we're different. I'll hold on to my little inhibitions and cultural hangups thankyou
 

luka

Well-known member
This is it. It's why even though I take more psychedelics than any man that ever lived I can't even fit in in that society. I told the bossman of the psychedelic society, look,there's more than one type of psychedelia. This white light cross legged thing is not the only way.
 
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