baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Re the argument this afternoon - I still stand by everything I said. The only exception is this : Luke, it wasn't fair to refer in anger to a previous argument that you'd had (however pissed off I was about it, I should still have separated it from the argument at hand and not said that publicly).

Barty and I have had a private discussion, and while we very much disagree about what happened, then hopefully it didn't make things any worse.

I'm sad because I feel like Dissensus is not as inclusive a space as it might be, if casual homophobia is still classed as a joke that people then subsequently try to defend - I have friends I'd be embarrassed to show this thread to because of the homophobia they've continually been subject to, and that doesn't feel good. And as per the subject of a thread from today or yesterday, I don't really want at the moment to be in a space where being understood about things I class as fundamental feels like such a fucking effort. (I'm sure other people might feel the same about other issues, and I'm sure other people felt similarly about me this afternoon.)

I wish you all keep safe and well in this fairly grim time: I might be back to post rather than just to lurk on music threads, but might not be tbh.
 
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luka

Well-known member
Ok baboon. Sounds like you best stay away. No hard feelings. Sorry for calling you a fat cunt.
 

sufi

lala
sorry to hear that dear baboon - i missed that whole fight i guess?
i suggest please hang about, together we'll overcome these reactionaries and viral idiots in these wierd times
x
 

sufi

lala
sorry to hear that dear baboon - i missed that whole fight i guess?
i suggest please hang about, together we'll overcome these reactionaries and viral idiots in these wierd times
x
now i've actually read the thread i might add that i agree with Baboon 100% as always :love:
but i wasnt referring to anyone specific as reactionaries or idiots :eek:


a fair bit of manlove all around on this thread in all sorts of ways, lads :love::love:

i worked in a heaving gay club for a couple of years as a younger impressionable youth btw :cool: ama
 

Leo

Well-known member
missed the entire thing and have no idea what this is about but love you, baboon. be well and come back whenever.
 

luka

Well-known member
Why do you agree with Baboon Sufi? I think he got the whole thing completely wrong. A silly episode.
 

droid

Beast of Burden
Re the argument this afternoon - I still stand by everything I said. The only exception is this : Luke, it wasn't fair to refer in anger to a previous argument that you'd had (however pissed off I was about it, I should still have separated it from the argument at hand and not said that publicly).

Barty and I have had a private discussion, and while we very much disagree about what happened, then hopefully it didn't make things any worse.

I'm sad because I feel like Dissensus is not as inclusive a space as it might be, if casual homophobia is still classed as a joke that people then subsequently try to defend - I have friends I'd be embarrassed to show this thread to because of the homophobia they've continually been subject to, and that doesn't feel good. And as per the subject of a thread from today or yesterday, I don't really want at the moment to be in a space where being understood about things I class as fundamental feels like such a fucking effort. (I'm sure other people might feel the same about other issues, and I'm sure other people felt similarly about me this afternoon.)

I wish you all keep safe and well in this fairly grim time: I might be back to post rather than just to lurk on music threads, but might not be tbh.

I missed most of this yesterday, but I agree that homophobic schoolyard banter as provocation is embarrassing, no matter how it is couched.

This is as much your community as anyone elses. Nobody should be leaving or being made feel unwelcome, especially now.

xx
 

sufi

lala
Why do you agree with Baboon Sufi? I think he got the whole thing completely wrong. A silly episode.
i dunno, but i always seem to have his PoV, same with droid.
I was thinking that the 3 of us are like a crappy starwars spoof
 

luka

Well-known member
There was no homophobic schoolyard banter. Baboon made some mistakes and if he wants to leave dissensus then no one should try and make him stay. If he wants to stick around no one should try and chase him off. He's a good lad and his heart is in the right place.
 

luka

Well-known member
i dunno, but i always seem to have his PoV, same with droid.
I was thinking that the 3 of us are like a crappy starwars spoof

Baboon is a textbook guardian liberal, as we all are. His only mistake is thinking there is anyone left here to convert.
 

droid

Beast of Burden
Yeah, just a bit of anti gay dancehall, a couple of pages of jokes about bumming and then some gaslighting.

Baboon's not the one making mistakes around here.
 

luka

Well-known member
That's the way it is droid. I do things my way and no one can stop me. If you don't like it that's your problem. You have to suck it up.
 
there's definitely healthy narcissism and unhealthy narcissism...and the unhealthy usually coexists with its opposite - it's used as a chronic defence against shame. I was talking about this in the other thread on 'cringe', in the context of Trump and Johnson - these people have narcissistic personality disorder, and are hiding deep narcissistic wounds which they are determined to hide (and we all have to suffer because of their internal struggles).

 

john eden

male pale and stale
In the late 80s I pretended to be gay in the queue for a west end night club.

This was because I’d pre-loaded somewhat and was pissed off with a large group of provincial football lads in the queue behind me who had been talking at great length almost exclusively about how the club would be full of queers.

On reflection this was not my wisest intervention but it ended up in an ok place after we went through some clearly demarcated stages of shock, apology, mild aggression, curiosity.

As with this thread there were a bunch of things going on - on both sides - and it would be too easy to flatten them out into a singular dynamic of homophobia vs enlightenment.
 

luka

Well-known member
The dispute starts on page nine for anyone that wants to understand it.

Corpsey said he went to a gay club with his straight suburban mates and felt awkward and anxious.

Baboon pretended that he could see no reason why straight, square suburban young men would feel awkward and anxious in that situation. I found that hilarious and said so.

Baboon then tried to impose his interpretation of corpseys response onto Corpsey. That his anxiety could only have been because Corpsey is a secret gay or was afraid of being a secret gay. This I also found hilarious. Why would it take being in a gay club to realise you are attracted to men? Aren't men everywhere? Like, you would not have seen a man before going to a gay nightclub? How does that work?

There seems to be an ethical obligation for all straight men, not only to go to gay nightclubs (why?) but to feel absolutely at ease in them from the first moment of entry.

Again, I think this is hilarious and absurd.

Straight men do often feel awkward and anxious around gay men. The reasons for this include residual or overt homophobia as well as anxiety over their own sexuality as well as the anxieties common to feeling out of place. It does no one any harm to admit that this is a fact of life, regrettable as it may be.

I see John has made an enlightened intervention and I'm very grateful for that as it allows us to take a break from the snarling and move closer to dialogue.
 

droid

Beast of Burden
We can all read. That's clearly not what happened. Baboon made a valid contribution and was then strawmanned and hounded out of it. This blatant gaslighting is a repeated occurence and is arguably worse than the incident itself.
 
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