luka

Well-known member
These things are always about relationships and interactions. Seeking to put the blame all on me is the easy way out.
 

luka

Well-known member
The community I treat so cavalierly is at the very same time the community I put a lot of energy and time into. It's one I contribute to. It's one I am supportive of. More so, if anything, than you are.
 

luka

Well-known member
But again while I am prepared to admit my flaws and failings this is never reciprocated by those who would rather pose as saints.
 

droid

Well-known member
Ye-ah. I dont think so. Ive never, since 2004 told anyone to leave Dissensus. Thats not saintly, its just basic respect.
 

luka

Well-known member
I don't really want baboon to leave. But saying it when pissed off, I dunno, it's not a big deal if you ask me
 

droid

Well-known member
The community I treat so cavalierly is at the very same time the community I put a lot of energy and time into. It's one I contribute to. It's one I am supportive of. More so, if anything, than you are.

Sure. But I dont give a fuck about status. This is about treating people right.
 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
starts off with noblemanbarty




baboon, not that bothered at this point asks

Having been to many gay clubs, I can assure you that the music varies just as it does in 'straight' clubs! Sometimes amazing, sometimes shit.

What were you anxious about?


goodmanbarty replies

getting bummed


then you say

It's obvious what he was anxious about isn't it. Youre going into a different world with different rules and you feel out of place and square and like a big grey pudgy sausage and you think everyone will notice and laugh at you for your shit clothes and your painfully inhibited body language and your palpable fear of being bummed.


danny chips in

But seriously? I can't believe you lot can't conceive of going to a gay club, it's hilarious. The final frontier...

Yeah. This is one of the weirdest things I've ever read on here.


you reply

No one said this thiugh did they!

hmm.


you defensively begin to back out

I'm being slightly provocative but its for a purpose.

what was the purpose? pedagogy as you claimed? for reactionaries? who exactly?


back to casual jokes about people in gay clubs automatically being rapists

But that didn't happen. Everyone said, being bummed.

How much clearer do you need it to be?!!! First response. Being bummed. In black and white.

then

You're not following this discussion at all. To restate, they're scared of their own sexuality, but this has to reframed it as a fear of the dangerous gay man unable to control himself, who's going to rape them.

which i think is pretty much the nub of baboon's beef with the convo


clear twisting of facts to the impartial eye:

This is just people trying to prove how right on and liberated they are now which obviously is a dead end.

I'm not saying it is rational or desirable for anyone to feel those things. I'm saying it's understandable and unavoidable.

which it just wasn't. noone was trying to prove anything apart from you at this point


voltron begins to form. barty says this was aimed at baboon...

maybe some people have big egos because they're much smarter than the people they're talking to.


a bit of clarity

My last post here because I too cannot be arsed any more, but you are projecting like crazy. I made a point you weren't capable of addressing. Fine, but don't blame *me* for not talking about what was actually said!

I think it's sad that a forum that prides itself on being open to difference in the culture it lionises, can't have a discussion about male sexuality and normalised homophobia without this happening. And i'm not being 'right-on' or whatever minimising term you choose to use - it seems a very basic discussion in the year 2020.


pure denial

People think they've spotted a weakness and pile on. Feeding frenzy. But it's like, nah, it's not what you think it is lads. Sorry. You got your hopes up for nothing.


then

Hopes?
Yes cos we all sit around plotting yr downfall.
Just reacting negatively to the attitudes expressed, is all.

bang on imo


Disagreeing is fine. But I think if you read it back when you've cooled off and the conflict adrenaline has stopped pumping you'll see it tells a different story to one you thought you were listening to. I don't blame you cos like I say I squirted ketchup knowing it would be mistaken for blood. I did it for a reason, to illustrate a point. And hopefully that will sink in later and we can all accept that no one was acting in bad faith or out of anything but their best instincts.

Trying to root out and punish homophobia is good and noble and I applaud you for it. It's not a bad instinct. It's cool.


"you've fallen into my trap, just as I expected!"

OR

Reactionary sentiment + inability to admit wrongness = performative oneupmanship

Which one is it, I wonder?

You guys can decide while I make the kids dinner.

straight no chaser.



back to the bait

so what was the bait for then?


I just explained. Bait is always a way to expose the reactive mind. That's why it is a valuable pedagogical tool.



Straight males talk about gay clubs in nudge-nudge terms while not engaging with the idea that they might be worried about their own sexuality. Create long-winded thread about it.

Nothing else to see here.

Luka, drop the persecution complex. It was already enough the last time, when people were trying to be understanding of your psychotic outburst at thirdform and were trying to be nice to you, only to be met with hostility.

more truth



Oh fuck off you fat cunt

you liked this post


barty here to save the day starting off with a strawman

1) Did either me or Luke say we wouldn’t go to a gay club? If so please quote where we said it.

2) when we spoke about “bunming”, were we satirising the pettiness of schoolyard machismo or genuinely saying that we’re scared of being anally raped by homosexual men (to paraphrase one or two users).

3) is it prejudiced to be a bit giggly as a straight man in a gay club (not that I said I would be as it happens), or for that matter to be Jacob reese mogg at a dancehall party or a middle class person at a millwall match or a white boy at a traditional African celebration or a man at a women’s institute meeting or an atheist on a church or white man in Hammersmith Palais?

4) were either my or Luke’s positions misunderstood at any point in the discussion?

5) were some unpleasant personal remarks made on both sides of the discussion?

6) in light of all this would anybody like to say that probably it was all a big misunderstanding or even say sorry for anything rude that was said (by all parties)?

not all bad points, but kind of cancelled when you start out with the first 2. which are basically gaslighting.



Again, I apologise for saying other users weren’t clever. It was petty of me.

I think Luke calling people “fat cunts” or whatever it was is unkind also.

Likewise, I hope that other people can reflect and apologise for any insults or mischaracterisations they put forward.

ah so now it's users and not just baboon? note the use of the passive voice. it's like saying 'i'm sorry if what i did made you feel xyz'

always the calming voice of reason, that lad.


adding egg to the mix

He really annoyed me when I called him a fat cunt. I wouldn't usually do it. But I had to express myself so it was plain that I was very annoyed with what he said. I don't approve of calling people fat cunts as a rule.

repeating it over and over, twisting the dagger. revealing.



noone really addressed barty about anything but

I’m determined not to let this be a full blowout. I’m not going to be in fucking quarantine without dissensus! Chased away by a virtual pitchfork mob screaming “witch” at me.



back to the nub

Oh ffs - sorry, I can't be doing with all this 'it's just ironic' bullshit. It's so lame and so dishonest.

On the rest, I'll reply later, and I probably don't have such strident views. But on that point, let's drag ourselves kicking and screaming into the modern age, please




tea with a well timed reminder, 2 pages later

Oh fuck off you fat cunt

Shots fired!

helpful.


Ok baboon. Sounds like you best stay away. No hard feelings. Sorry for calling you a fat cunt.

just couldn't help yourself, eh?



totally unexpected, sufi comes at everyone

sorry to hear that dear baboon - i missed that whole fight i guess?
i suggest please hang about, together we'll overcome these reactionaries and viral idiots in these wierd times
x




this whole post summed up

Yeah, just a bit of anti gay dancehall, a couple of pages of jokes about bumming and then some gaslighting.

Baboon's not the one making mistakes around here.




That's the way it is droid. I do things my way and no one can stop me. If you don't like it that's your problem. You have to suck it up.

that's the best you can do?




can't be arsed any more... here's my pov


barty started it & slips through the net. baboon, slightly amused asks a few probing questions. luka compounds, doubles down, tries to wriggle out of it. nothing works, begins to lash out. feels hounded, calls persecution. feud ensues.

it's interesting how some people can try so hard to paint themselves as noble on certain subjects on here, but when it suits them they do whatever they please and anyone who doesn't like it gets the voltron treatment. i know this because i've felt the brunt of it several times and have seen it happen to others. it's already been acknowledged before. it's toxic, dishonest and most people here can see it for what it is even if they don't bother to voice it.
 

luka

Well-known member
Lol look at all that work you weirdo! I don't agree with your take I'm afraid but thank you for the play by play summary!
 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
Lol look at all that work you weirdo! I don't agree with your take I'm afraid but thank you for the play by play summary!

fair enough, but can i just ask whether you think casual 'isms and phobias are ok as long as it's all lads being lads?
 

luka

Well-known member
Honestly patty I try my hardest with you but you're a difficult character. You keep picking at scabs. Just leave it. Smoke your spliff and play your bongos and stop getting agitated by me. I don't bear you any ill will but please leave me alone if you possibly can.
 

catalog

Well-known member
I re-read as well but I disagree with patty re the bit that provoked Luka.

I get why this might have sent you off now, which I hadn't really caught before. Cos language in certain contexts means certain things. Fair enough if you got annoyed.

Thing is, the whole thing has escalated probably cos you should have taken the sort of olive branch baboon was holding out in his long post, but you didn't. I know you again apologised for this later, said you didn't want him to go or anything,, but I would like to know why you didn't just accept what he said. Was there something intrinsically wrong or insulting in it. I've not actually reread that post of his, but will do after posting this. That's why the other thing I wrote got deleted!
 

luka

Well-known member
Fuckng hell I just read through that thing you posted patty and I'm sorry but you are a right piece of work! That's really disturbed me. I feel very uneasy about you.
 
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