version

Who loves ya, baby?
 

boxedjoy

Well-known member
I mean this British Gas thing would be fine if he also wasn't calling for volunteers to administer the vaccine. A process which undermines the value of medical work and denies people the right to be paid for carrying out important tasks.
 

version

Who loves ya, baby?
Scrolling through your Junk Email folder and finding it’s entirely made up of plaintive emails from Sir Keir Starmer with subject lines like “Vaccinate Britain,” “Your Voice Still Matters,” and “I Agree Entirely with My Right Honourable Colleague.”
 

thirdform

Well-known member
There aren't any traditional Labour voters anymore, and New Labour was the closest the Labour party ever came to admitting it.

Absolutely correct. Trad labour was fundamentally founded on the compact between the trade unions and the state. Given that less than 20% of the british workforce is unionised, and those who are mainly in higher paid public sector jobs.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Kill starmer peel his fucking face off destroy him liquidate his essence

Nah he's a useful idiot, let him run labour into the ground and reduce the vote to 12%. Labour is the biggest obstacle to any working class movement developing in this country. Every radical formation gets absorbed by it eventually. A fait similar to the liberal democrats is optimum.
 

wild greens

Well-known member
Absolutely correct. Trad labour was fundamentally founded on the compact between the trade unions and the state. Given that less than 20% of the british workforce is unionised, and those who are mainly in higher paid public sector jobs.

You reckon? I left public sector because the money was shit (among other reasons).

Well organised unions like tfl's lot etc are pretty good at getting good money for their staff but unison & unite in public sector are mostly fucking awful these days. Been stripped to the bone and it's mostly hangers on from previous generation who are actually union reps etc

I am proving your point I guess. But public sector money is awful
 

wild greens

Well-known member
Keir's main motivation is power as far as I can tell and he's decided the best way to go about it is to mostly agree with the tories. He's probably right but doesn't really help the country

I think he'll get in if it's against Boris
 

boxedjoy

Well-known member
I don't think so. The country is seeing 1000 deaths a day that are mostly preventable. Labour should be wiping the floor with them just now.
 

wild greens

Well-known member
I think their logic is that you can't politicise the dead during a disaster and they think it would play very badly to centrist masses if he tried to. Its far easier to play the long game politically and give Boris enough rope to hang himself with

It's a cynical approach but clearly they're banking on the inevitable enquiry and just taking jabs for now.

Politics is so shit
 

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
I think their logic is that you can't politicise the dead during a disaster and they think it would play very badly to centrist masses if he tried to.

In other words, they are politicizing the dead, rather than doing their job, holding the government to account, and trying and get them to fix up.

Politics is so shit

Played like this it certainly is, yes.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Jon, could you point out where Starmer said it's basically okay for cops to spy on people? Cos there's a lot of this from the Left of the party at the moment and it's classic bad faith. They're fucked off 'cos their messian is not in No. 10 and the confusion over abstention and voting against, and 2nd and 3rd reading is a classic splitting tactic (aimed at their base, not MPs I should add) . If only they were as good at winning elections as they are at inciting factional battles.

There's nothing Starmer can do to block the bill - as Ollie says, it'll become law anyway 'cos they've such a large majority. Starmer has the task of seeing if he can blunt the worst of it via amendments balanced with being denounced by the press and media as hating "our boys" and being in love with immigrants etc. I don't know how you square that circle and it's an unenviable position.

 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
In other words, they are politicizing the dead, rather than doing their job, holding the government to account, and trying and get them to fix up.
Well hang on, he did this loads last year - quizzing Johnson on everything he said, pointing out all the lies, the broken promises, all of that - and the response I saw from a lot of people on the left, including here, was "That's just Westminster politics, it's not relevant to the real world, what is he actually doing???"

To which the answer is probably "not a lot", but what is he actually able to do? What, in concrete terms, would Corbyn be able to do now if he were still LOTO, that Starmer is failing to do? The government has such a big majority it can rule effectively as a parliamentary dictatorship. In the absence of something so controversial it causes a massive rebellion among Tory MPs, Boris Johnson can do (or refuse to do) more or less anything he likes, his party goes along with it, and that's that.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
You reckon? I left public sector because the money was shit (among other reasons).

Well organised unions like tfl's lot etc are pretty good at getting good money for their staff but unison & unite in public sector are mostly fucking awful these days. Been stripped to the bone and it's mostly hangers on from previous generation who are actually union reps etc

I am proving your point I guess. But public sector money is awful

Yeah, there's no money in the ps for people who haven't been union reps since 1980, definitely. Let alone jobs. It's a question of warm seats for backsides by this point.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Starmer will not win the next election - or if he does, it will be by an absolute minority. The centrist vote is always so insignificant. Corbyn's biggest mistake was trying to court them - even though they are fundamentally either lab or lib when push comes to shove.

You'd be surprised at how popular Boris still is. Listen to any daytime talk radio and you'll hear disgruntled people talking about how people aren't observing the rules - presumably themselves included but that's that. The left was not able to offer a coherent response to this but to claim that the right were not locking down hard enough. Had Corbyn won he wouldn't have been able to change this, the left let the nhs get sold to foreign consortia under Blair because he was seen as the 'lesser evil' hold your nose, don't sneeze and then play accountability. Classic doublethink.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
Barty says there's no way Starmer wins too. I assumed he would but I'm always wrong about these things
 
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