subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
Right, but at what cost? Lockdowns have massive negative consequences - economically and in terms of both physical and mental health, for everyone. Those have to be weighed against any projected saving in covid-19 infections.

I am in no way defending the government here. They have fucked up pretty much everything they could conceivably have fucked up.

You may not be defending the government but you are defending their thinking, because your thinking is the same. And its flaw, as we keep on seeing, is that those massive negative consequences are going to happen anyway, but later and worse. Nothing gets done until the public health crisis is solved. Failing to lockdown, failing to provide the necessary support for lockdown, failing to sort things out while in lockdown... is why we're now going through it all again, and worse than last time. Well, at least my mum's been vaccinated anyway.
 

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
If Marcus Rashford can do it...

But he's now having to get on it again, because it seems in a lot of cases that the £30 vouchers are being replaced by food boxes containing £5 worth of stuff, the rest going in someone's pocket, presumably due to "admin costs".

FFS!!!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
You may not be defending the government but you are defending their thinking, because your thinking is the same. And its flaw, as we keep on seeing, is that those massive negative consequences are going to happen anyway, but later and worse. Nothing gets done until the public health crisis is solved. Failing to lockdown, failing to provide the necessary support for lockdown, failing to sort things out while in lockdown... is why we're now going through it all again, and worse than last time. Well, at least my mum's been vaccinated anyway.
The Conservatives are, as ever, thinking about how to save their own skins, minimize bad PR, protect their own business interests as investors, landlords etc. and keep things ticking over for their associates in big business. I doubt that many of them really give half a toss about working-class kids falling further behind as a result of schools being closed for months on end, or parents going nuts through trying to care for their kids all day while also being expected to work.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
You're absolutely right about the lack of support, the lack of coordination and so on. But that's the aspect of things where Starmer has been quite good at holding the government to account, from what I've seen (as you admit yourself).
 

version

Who loves ya, baby?
I dunno whether all the pics are legit, wouldn't be hard for someone to snap some shit food and tweet it, but one pic I saw had some tuna in a coin bag... There was also talk of people being given half a carrot or pepper...
 

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
The Conservatives are, as ever, thinking about how to save their own skins, minimize bad PR, protect their own business interests as investors, landlords etc. and keep things ticking over for their associates in big business. I doubt that many of them really give half a toss about working-class kids falling further behind as a result of schools being closed for months on end, or parents going nuts through trying to care for their kids all day while also being expected to work.
True enough.

You're absolutely right about the lack of support, the lack of coordination and so on. But that's the aspect of things where Starmer has been quite good at holding the government to account, from what I've seen (as you admit yourself).
I admitted that he was doing that at PMQs (which no one gves a shit about). Yesterday he made a good speech about it as well. But it's 11 months on and it needs to be followed up all day every day by everyone until, at the very least, test and trace is sorted out. Not because of cronyism (yes of course the Tories are a corrupt bunch of bastards) but because it needs to be sorted out.

Here's a new piece by George Monbiot...

 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
Yes, the failure of the test/track/trace system - and the vast sums of your and my money spent on it - and the lack of tendering and general opacity of the process - stands out as one of the worst offences. Among many.
 

boxedjoy

Well-known member
Track and trace was never going to work, as long as businesses were open. People who work in restaurants and retail often aren't allowed their phones on them, and if they are they still probably would prefer to have them in their locker than in a busy place where it's easy to lose it or get stolen. Most folk I know in retail were explicitly told not to keep their phone on them and I can see why businesses would take that approach - if you've got 500 people a day passing through your shop and you've to self-isolate if you come into contact with someone potentially infected you're going to be racking up the time off pretty quickly.
 

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
Track and trace was never going to work, as long as businesses were open.

No indeed. They've pissed about over absolutely everything.

Lockdown completely. Shut all businesses. Close the borders. Pay people to stay at home. Test all key workers as a priority. Track and trace all contacts locally. Even eleven months on, this is still the right plan.
 

wild greens

Well-known member
Surprising considering Keir is apparently Phoenix Wright turned politician. It's a shambles how he has allowed himself to be played into a corner.

For this exact reason I think he will get in once they turn the screw on Boris
 

john eden

male pale and stale
They were always going to turn on Boris once Brexit was sorted, but the pandemic has complicated this. It will be interesting to compare and contrast the very English way we do this with the Republicans and Trump.
 
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