luka

Well-known member
Staff member
i just thought it would be more fun to open the question out a bit than to rehearse what we already know (and depresses us)
 

thirdform

Well-known member
you cant get out of being british unfortunately. its your lot in life. so you have to reckon with your inheritance you cant disavow it. the place made you who you are, even when you were resisting it, you speak its language, its rock supports your weight, its culture shaped your sensibilities. you are britain and youll never be anything else.

Not me. I'm only ever london, and only ever parts of it. I learned English, and that's why I speak it to an extremely competent degree. It's not like I consult a thesaurus, ive just had to pay more attention to the language as a form of oneupmanship.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
I also don't neatly fit into the multicultural paradigm in the way that caribbean and south Asian immigrants do, but I would wager my kids will.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Why Boris doesn't come join his relatives in 🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷 is beyond me. Your lot will feed him to the wolves like you did poor Theresa. My mate wanted to shag her. Turns out he started working at the DWP so that was me calling it quits. had horrible taste in dance music anyway. Big Chaos in the CBD and DJ Sprinkles fan. Hates anything to do with nuum, doesn't even like to mix, believes that everyone should hear his 13 minute deep house tracks in their entirety.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
I also don't neatly fit into the multicultural paradigm in the way that caribbean and south Asian immigrants do, but I would wager my kids will.
i think so too. The Turks went mainstream in 2000 and cemented their place in the national folklore when they stood outside their shops with baseball bats during the Tottenham riots.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
The Turks took over all the South Asian owned shops around 2000 to become a regular fixture in everybodys life.
 

WashYourHands

Well-known member
Reclaiming a symbol associated with imperialism and fascism for this rock’s population isn’t a bad idea in theory (as per Bragg), just don’t mention the WAR

You can’t have a Irish heritage and look at the Union Jack without feeling queasy (apart from Morrissey), but the wheel of the year ie the 8 spokes that make up the structure with a sacral king or queen in the middle, is as old as the hills

Unfortunately, none of this converts to policy or unfucking ourselves out of this current pestilence. It’s low brow bs and the fact this “decision” gets aired in the press as a pr-stunt says it all. Inclusivity is just another name for wage-slave
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
These are all great things which are generally not celebrated by wrapping yourself in the Union Jack.
But I wasn't talking about them as great things in themselves. I was talking about them as potential articulations of patriotism. And you need that in electoral politics. You need to be able to say something positive about the country and somehow reconcile yourself with it's history. I bore myself saying this, it's so obvious. I know electoral politics isn't your bag, and I get why. It's not mine really but I understand it's logic.

As I said above, it's not like Labour will do anything interesting with the idea anyway. Stand next to Union Jack, arm around a squaddie, and that'll be about the sum total of it I'd guess. It's the next stage when it starts to affect policy that worries me more, especially the stance they'll take on immigration.
 
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DannyL

Wild Horses
It should work now.

I think Labour are likely to balls it up, implement in a reactionary way, but channelling patriotism is in the job description.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
They will balls in up because they are just not able to articulate a non-nationalist patriotism. Partly because they don’t want to and partly because nothing they do in this arena will be sufficient.

Boris could get away with shitting on a portrait of the queen in a children’s hospital but Kieth will be made to recite all 64 verses of the national anthem on Loose Women.

The last time Labour did this effectively was Cool Britannia in which Britpop was lauded and Jungle was completely marginalised.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
They will balls in up because they are just not able to articulate a non-nationalist patriotism. Partly because they don’t want to and partly because nothing they do in this arena will be sufficient.

Boris could get away with shitting on a portrait of the queen in a children’s hospital but Kieth will be made to recite all 64 verses of the national anthem on Loose Women.

The last time Labour did this effectively was Cool Britannia in which Britpop was lauded and Jungle was completely marginalised.

It's arguable if non-nationalist patriotism is really possible on a political level. I don't think it is. Culturally I'll grant it (though personally i don't think they are compatible, but i understand what is being hinted at) but politically you are essentially part of a war machine. Nationalism comes with the job description.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
It's arguable if non-nationalist patriotism is really possible on a political level. I don't think it is. Culturally I'll grant it (though personally i don't think they are compatible, but i understand what is being hinted at) but politically you are essentially part of a war machine. Nationalism comes with the job description.

I think probably it isn’t possible in England because England’s cultural centre of gravity is still Empire.

So it’s a dangerous game.
 
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