Keir Starmer

IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
john eden said:
There is only so long that people can keep blaming Corbyn for things. We were promised grown up politics by grown up politicans - and that this was the what the country was crying out for.
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I too am not convinced by that argument. Sure, they lost a lot of seats and need to recover many to win an election, but we're talking about the polls specifically - why does the position that they are in make it hard for Starmer to do well in a recent opinion poll?

Sure, some people keep voting Tory - a lot of people, in fact - but even at the last election, which was a huge success, they got under 44% of the popular vote.
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But I'm talking about the polls here. I'm really asking why don't all the awful things that the Tories are doing affect their popularity in them? That's nothing to do with FPTP.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
craner said:
Because the Labour Party is so self-absorbed and divorced from reality the one thing it probably should reflect on but never will is the fact that it has so little credibility or appeal left that it just takes one thing to go right for the Tories (i.e. the vaccine) and its own polling numbers start tanking again. And, to be fair, this might have less to do with either Corbyn or Starmer than it thinks.
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Yeah, that's what I'm getting at I think. I know this is the KS thread so it's inevitable that he (and thus Corbyn) are gonna be discussed in detail but I'm pretty sure that in terms of the main issue with Labour's election hopes they're not it. My feeling is that the question of who is the leader and what is the side of the party they are seen as representing is far less important than we tend to think it is.... perhaps even less relevant than I'm thinking when I say it's really irrelevant.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
DannyL said:
It is weird isn't it. Idk what it is. 10 years in power has inured us to it's abuses? The cultural war and Brexit shifting attitudes? The death of public shame?
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But worse than that. It seems that when the Tories do something bad there are a lot of people who recognise it as bad.... but it's so ingrained that Labour are worse - and I really see people saying this kind of thing - that something terrible happens and their first reaction is "Well that's awful, thank God we have the Tories cos imagine how bad it would be if we had Labour!" - the point I'm trying to make here is that it's not that people can't see how bad some of their actions are but rather that they have such a low opinion of Labour.
They're not weirdly blind to the Tories, they just loathe Labour so much it doesn't matter.
And I don't know why it's like this and I don't have any idea how it can be changed ever.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
IdleRich said:
But I'm talking about the polls here. I'm really asking why don't all the awful things that the Tories are doing affect their popularity in them? That's nothing to do with FPTP.
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I think much of it is that the Tories "got Brexit done", and most people who voted Leave are so ideologically wedded to that choice that they are incapable of admitting to themselves that, all things considered, it might not have been all that great an idea, let alone a well executed one. So Brexit must still be a good thing, and the party that "delivered" it must therefore be a good party and capable of forming a good government.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
But this is the thing - they ain't got brexit done at all, they're buggering around with it right now threatening to break international law again... it's still right in the news very much not done.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
IdleRich said:
But this is the thing - they ain't got brexit done at all, they're buggering around with it right now threatening to break international law again... it's still right in the news very much not done.
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Yes, course they haven't, hence the scare quotes. And everything that was once dismissed as Project Fear has come to pass. There hasn't even been a reduction in immigration, which was one of the commonest reasons people gave for voting leave. The whole shitshow has been a complete failure even when judged by its own stated aims.

But a sizeable chunk of the country will still be crowing about "sovereignty" even as they starve while Jacob Rees-Mogg boards a rocket for Muskrat's Mars colony.
 
woops

woops

is not like other people
Mr. Tea said:
I think much of it is that the Tories "got Brexit done", and most people who voted Leave are so ideologically wedded to that choice that they are incapable of admitting to themselves that, all things considered, it might not have been all that great an idea, let alone a well executed one. So Brexit must still be a good thing, and the party that "delivered" it must therefore be a good party and capable of forming a good government.
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are they reading different headlines to me? do they somehow imagine it's not a total flippin' disaster for everyone? (except the tory mates who must be hung from a lamp post?) if they're proud of this government for "getting brexit done" they're on another planet anyway. which is another symptom of the bizarre inability to realise that the people in charge are corrupt and incompetent, swindling fucks, that @IdleRich is diagnosing. it's not enough to say oh well people are ideologically wedded to whatever. they're totally brainwashed beyond the wildest dreams of adam curtis, or psychotic
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
You gotta wonder if they can read at this point.
Saw this on twitter earlier, it's such a perfect example of what I was on about yesterday you'd be forgiven for thinking I made it up to prove a point, but no, it's straight from the donkey's mouth... maybe in fact donkey's ass or better still ass's ass.

Maybe it’s just a case of best of a bad bunch? I for one don’t think Boris or the conservatives have handled things amazingly however have they done better than any other party could have done I would say absolutely yes.
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But seriously how can that be challenged
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
woops said:
are they reading different headlines to me? do they somehow imagine it's not a total flippin' disaster for everyone? (except the tory mates who must be hung from a lamp post?) if they're proud of this government for "getting brexit done" they're on another planet anyway. which is another symptom of the bizarre inability to realise that the people in charge are corrupt and incompetent, swindling fucks, that @IdleRich is diagnosing. it's not enough to say oh well people are ideologically wedded to whatever. they're totally brainwashed beyond the wildest dreams of adam curtis, or psychotic
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I think most of them are aware of what's going on, on a factual level. But it's like a battered woman who convinces herself her brutal husband still really loves her deep down, or something. Any aspect of the catastrofuck either can be blamed on Remoaners or on the spiteful and inexplicably Anglophobic EU, or is a price worth paying for all that "sovereignty".
 
subvert47

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
www.independent.co.uk

Opinion: Labour lacks moral purpose – it’s disconnected from the hardships of the pandemic

Keir Starmer’s methodology smacks of calculated politicking, the party is exposing a lack of heart, energy, and commitment to the communities it should be serving
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

With the Labour left now sidelined, the politicians and officials who spent five years lamenting Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership have certainly got “their” party back – but what on earth did they want it back for? It’s hard to divine a goal beyond simply being in charge. This looks a lot like power for the sake of power, lacking any greater energy, guiding force, sense of commitment or moral purpose. And if the polls are anything to go by, the public can see right through it.
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Pretty much.
 
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