Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
Well it's quite explicit isn't it, a boot stamping on a human face forever.
Of course, but I meant what people think they stand for.

"Prosperity" or "freedom" or "law and order" or somesuch horseshit, I suppose.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Of course, but I meant what people think they stand for.

"Prosperity" or "freedom" or "law and order" or somesuch horseshit, I suppose.

Sure. the difference with labour (at least nowadays) is they stand for nothing in practical terms whilst expending a lot of word salad to try and make themselves out to stand for something .. else. It's why Starmer will not win in 2023-24.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses

The above might be a bit of choker for DIssensus. Doesn't mention the upcoming byelection which is going to be interesting. I just had a quick look at the odds, not much in it (in my v cursory check). 4/6 - Lab, 11/10 Tory.
 

WashYourHands

Well-known member
It feels more and more like the 80's, except this man who'd slide off a chair can't even assassinate an open target like the official version of the govt's Covid response. I'd give good odds on late summer rioting

The British are self-sabotaging twats at times. It's either get drunk and fling a pub chair Millwall style then go home and sleep it off, or get exploited repeatedly. At least the French know how to strike
 

thirdform

Well-known member

The above might be a bit of choker for DIssensus. Doesn't mention the upcoming byelection which is going to be interesting. I just had a quick look at the odds, not much in it (in my v cursory check). 4/6 - Lab, 11/10 Tory.

Not sure how it is a choker mate. The author himself admits that what he's offering is nothing but a supposition that people will want party leaders to play politics after the lockdown. That is a big if.

And the all important bit is here:

That said, among voters in the northern and Welsh seats Labour lost to the Conservatives in 2019, perceptions are poorer than anything Team Starmer should be comfortable with.
Of voters in those key seats, 55 per cent agree that Labour has played party politics during the pandemic. Just under half agree with the sentiment Starmer is not strong enough, and 55 per cent believe “it is unclear what Keir Starmer stands for”.
A majority of voters in seats gained by the Tories are unsure what Keir Starmer stands for

//

On perceptions of handling the economy, Labour still has its work cut out. But where Starmer has succeeded – perhaps the only takeaway for the electorate – is in telling voters he’s not Corbyn, and that he’s not as left-wing as the previous Labour regime.
That may have been valuable in netting some Lib Dem sympathisers, as the polls do show. But in no way is being “not Jeremy Corbyn” enough of a pull to take Labour to power.


and of course

Ben Walker is a data journalist at the New Statesman.

memories of Nate Silver's data science tyranny in the US elections last year, which, to be fair, was informative but far too inflated.

I do think Long Kesh Stoner has a chance, but the issue is now he's going to have to become a technocratic brexiteer (I.E: a remainer in all but name) which is never going to satisfy the trade union aristocracy he intends to court (like corbyn, funnily enough) - mcklusky will only be satisfied with the most thoroughgoing nativism and protectionism that the average working class tory would recoil from.

The problem is not that the labour party is ideologically dead, which is what people tend to focus on to a dangerous degree. The point is its mechanical structures are undergoing ossification. Ideologies, from the most progressive to the most reactionary are always out of date with the material present, otherwise they wouldn't be ideologies per se. Which is what I was trying to communicate to Wild Greens earlier this week, but I probably made a mess out of it.
 
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Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
It's pretty sobering that "55 per cent [of 'red wall' Labour/ex-Labour voters] agree that Labour has played party politics during the pandemic", if that means "criticizing the government", which I think it probably does. Because failing to do that enough is one of Starmer's commonest criticisms from middle-class leftists.

Perhaps just another example of the bind Labour are in, in terms of their potential vote share being split between constituencies that have almost no ideology in common any more.
 

catalog

Well-known member
Isnt the main problem that tories have stolen any kind of labour thunder by essentially forming the most socialist government since ww2? Effectively nationalised vast swathes of private enterprise with 80% furlough and run a command economy.
 

version

Well-known member
Isnt the main problem that tories have stolen any kind of labour thunder by essentially forming the most socialist government since ww2? Effectively nationalised vast swathes of private enterprise with 80% furlough and run a command economy.
I think the main problem is people just don't like Labour and work backward from there.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
If we had PR then the thing to do would be for Labour to split into at least two, and perhaps three, parties, that might then be able to find enough common ground to rule as a coalition.

As it is, that would obviously guarantee Tory majorities until the end of time.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
That the UK media coverage of Meghan was not racist.

Do you have an exact quote? Cos when I google it the headline I see is "Allegations of racism must be taken seriously - Starmer"

Obviously it doesn't matter what he actually said, cos we all know he's a massive cunt.
 
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