Keir Starmer

[version]

the labour party want to become a pure abstract entity seamlessly intergrated with capital and the authoritarian state, purged of people and party members, frictionless and almost invisible.

The only silver lining I can see to the Tories being in charge during the pandemic is that some of them are hostile to things like vaccine passports whereas I'd expect Starmer's Labour to be fully behind the authoritarian technocrat stuff, like Trudeau, Biden etc.

That being said, if Labour were currently in power then Corbyn would have won the last election, so this is all hypothetical.

 

[luka]

yes, youre absolutely right. the tories will do less damage now than Starmer would have done for precisely that repsect for indivdual liberty

 

[version]

The Tories are a nightmare for civil liberties in other respects though, e.g. the clampdown on protests and the ongoing ideological takeover of cultural institutions and oversight mechanisms.

 

[luka]

yeah but no one not even hitler is anywhere near as bad as starmer

 

[Mr. Tea]

yes, youre absolutely right. the tories will do less damage now than Starmer would have done for precisely that repsect for indivdual liberty

Oh man, they got you good.

 

[luka]

who what where... there's always been a recidivist concern for liberty within the tory ranks which is the main reason we dont have id cards in this country. yet.

 

[Mr. Tea]

That's hardly the only or even the most important definition of "personal liberty", though, is it?

 

[luka]

eh

 

[Mr. Tea]

sounding a bit Canadian there

 

[Mr. Tea]

 

[subvert47]

 

[john eden]

In an interview with Insurance Age in March 2020 – which described him as an "nsurance broker turned Conservative MP" – Wakeford said "his time in the insurance industry "gave him "experience of the real world" and "the communication skills needed to speak to businesses"

 

[john eden]

Owen Smith (born 2 May 1970)[2] is a British lobbyist and former politician who has been the UK government relations director for pharmaceutical company Bristol Myers Squibb since 2020

 

[subvert47]

"This leadership is devoid of ideas, lacking vision. The summit of their ideas are just small tweaks to the status quo. They challenge virtually nothing, but are noticeably determined when it comes to rule changes that alienate the left. They have demoralised people who were awakened to politics for the first time. I am sure, this is part of their larger legacy."

 

[DannyL]

Should form their own party. I say that without tryna start an argument but that's what should happen. The people concerned should stop trying to both squeeze into the same pair of pants.

 

[shakahislop]

Should form their own party. I say that without tryna start an argument but that's what should happen. The people concerned should stop trying to both squeeze into the same pair of pants.

same old same old isn't it. the electoral system makes it impossible for a new party to get anywhere, so labour has to be a movement which incorporates a coalition of different views. there's not really a way out of it, it's coz the rules of the game are ancient and bad.

 

[Leo]

same with the democrats here. although maybe worse over there because you also have Green and Lib Dem parties who also dilute the numbers.

or do Lib Dems tend to be disillusions Tory voters?

 

[DannyL]

They're more to the Centre than Labour (or are meant to be) - Labour are very centrist rn

 

[shakahislop]

a lot of the peculiarities of the uk, and especially england where there is no countervailing force like there is in scotland or to an extent NI, i think are down to the way you only need a fragment of the population to vote for you to be able to do more or less whatever you want government-wise. it does tend to lead to this pattern of one lot of people being totally dominated by another. almost all power in england is held by the central government, local councils can do very little, the mayor of london can do a bit but not loads, so it is comprehensive.

culturally speaking i think a lot of the doom and gloom comes from this, that if you're not on the winning side you have no other avenue and there aren't any reasonable grounds to hope that anything will get any better most of the time, you know that loads of problems you see every day aren't going to get solved.

 

[Mr. Tea]

same old same old isn't it. the electoral system makes it impossible for a new party to get anywhere, so labour has to be a movement which incorporates a coalition of different views. there's not really a way out of it, it's coz the rules of the game are ancient and bad.

What's a bugger is that when Labour had a lefty in charge, the centrists didn't like it, and now they've got a centrist in charge, the lefties don't like it - but for the Tories, there seems to be no electoral penalty incurred by simply drifting further and further to the right.