padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
barty did this self portrait 3 months ago and no one seemed to mind
yikes. I was on hiatus for that. I definitely would've said something, or at least agreed with @sufi.

tbh it doesn't surprise me terribly. not that he's racist, rather a bit weird in the opposite direction about black culture.

I think it would be good if he came back too. the is it ironic lads banter schtick can be super irritating (and a bit 4chan for my taste) but I also agree with all the things shiels said. we don't like the same things at all but I appreciate anyone who can passionately, articulately advocate his interests.
 

entertainment

Well-known member
I always wanted to be black when I was younger. I'm sure a lot thought that. Is there a lot of weird complexes of privilege and ignorance tied up in those feelings? Definitely. Is there also a huge amount of envy and genuine admiration? Yes.

It's always a weird concoction of feelings and pretenses, vanity and solidarity. You can't be puritanical about it.

I think that it was probably Barty's intention to try and acknowledge that when he posted stuff like that. To relieve the tension a bit.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I always wanted to be black when I was younger.
well, it's been a very common fantasy of hip young white dudes since at least the Beats (actually, probably starting with pre-WWII jazz dudes)

I never felt it b/c I had different musical etc heroes as a teenager, but I understand the complexity of feelings it contains

it's one part of the weird, complex, and often uncomfortable even when well-meaning relationship of white people to black popular culture

b/c - no offense here - you/anyone only want certain parts of the black experience, that's the fantasy. I assume this is obvious.

I'm certainly not puritanical about it. I do think that Barty self-portrait falls on the uncomfortable side of the line, even if it's not serious.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I also can't help feeling like it's doubly weird when it's Europeans because white Europeans are twice removed from Black American culture

combining the fantasies of white people about black people/culture with European fantasies about American people/culture

kind of a cultural version of that Gary Younge piece I linked in the Culture Wars thread a few days ago

not that it doesn't yield good or interesting art or other things sometimes
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
the European appreciation for (largely) Black American art forms like jazz or techno come to mind, on the positive side
 

sufi

lala
It's a fascinating phenomenon that underpins most of dissensus imho
we like black music is the unwritten slogan of this place, despite we are mostly white nerds - i think the eden "no patois" rule is a crucial part of how/why that works in a positive way
--------------
right now i think what's happening is White people have abandoned any pretence of legitimacy as leaders, and by being the only group to rise up against the obvious tryranny, BLM have claimed the title. The whites should releinquish power for say 400 years to even things out
 

sufi

lala
Is this still the cancellation thread?
Can we develop some strategies to delete a few of the bothersome bigots in public life?
I wanted us to analyse effective cancellations, work out the ingredients for a successful campaign and then get to work - the time is very ripe, like a smelly cheese
 

version

Well-known member
I mean the best way's possibly to completely ignore them. If everyone did that then they wouldn't need to be cancelled as they'd have no audience. Imagine if everyone just stopped listening to, writing about and watching anything to do with Katie Hopkins. Bliss!
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I was thinking that (this is obvious really) if you're on the right already you can't be cancelled, can you?

Or are the right cancelling people too?
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
White people have abandoned any pretence of legitimacy as leaders, and by being the only group to rise up against the obvious tryranny, BLM have claimed the title. The whites should releinquish power for say 400 years to even things out
you're not the only person I've seen make this statement, and with due respect, it's not just unhelpful but I think counterproductive

the legitimacy thing partially has validity - certainly I don't want to undermine the self-determination of black people in their own liberation (long history there), nor do white allies have the greatest track record

otoh the relinquishing power bit is bad. no one group should be in power. black people in power would (and have, where they've had it) made just much a hash of it as anyone else. I'm aware it's not really a serious suggestion, but it is exactly the kind of thing that gives ammunition to right-wing fantasies going back to Reconstruction at least.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I was thinking that (this is obvious really) if you're on the right already you can't be cancelled, can you?
for social ostracism to work target has to care within some degree about the same things as the people doing the cancelling, so yes

@sufi I still don't agree cancellation is a good tactic, so in that case I'll bow out of this particular thread
 

version

Well-known member
Or are the right cancelling people too?

Yes. They accuse people of being too liberal all the time. A load of Republicans get called RINO (Republican In Name Only) and told to get out of the party by the Trump supporters. There are also women and minorities who get torrents of abuse or even chased out for being women or minorities, e.g. the women of the alt-right movement.
 

version

Well-known member
It doesn't really mean anything because most people forget about it within weeks, but it basically means no longer engaging with them in any way and hoping that sentiment extends to their employers etc so they lose their platform and audience.
 
I think it started off like cancelling a subscription to the fan club. This person is not one of us, not virtuous, you can't like this and be woke. So it's about the audience values no longer aligning with the cancelled. So yeah, it doesn't work for Trump, Boris etc because their values never aligned with the cancellers.
 

entertainment

Well-known member
I think it started with performances, talks and exhibitions by problematic people being cancelled because of pressure from mass complaints. Then no other venues or museums would book those people so they were effectively cancelled from every platform.
 

sufi

lala
you're not the only person I've seen make this statement, and with due respect, it's not just unhelpful but I think counterproductive

the legitimacy thing partially has validity - certainly I don't want to undermine the self-determination of black people in their own liberation (long history there), nor do white allies have the greatest track record

otoh the relinquishing power bit is bad. no one group should be in power. black people in power would (and have, where they've had it) made just much a hash of it as anyone else. I'm aware it's not really a serious suggestion, but it is exactly the kind of thing that gives ammunition to right-wing fantasies going back to Reconstruction at least.
https://twitter.com/search?q="My Prime Minister"&src=trend_click :)
 
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