rhythm basics thread

woops

is not like other people
thank you patty. until 2-3 weeks ago (within lockdown memory) i had no internet at home and went on the internet for half an hour or an hour each day and never had headphones for listening to tunes, a happy luddite, so forgive me if i'm a bit behind.

and thanks 3rdform for the 110 tip, shame youtube doesn't have an accurate 1210 pitch control faders
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
thank you patty. until 2-3 weeks ago (within lockdown memory) i had no internet at home and went on the internet for half an hour or an hour each day and never had headphones for listening to tunes, a happy luddite, so forgive me if i'm a bit behind.

and thanks 3rdform for the 110 tip, shame youtube doesn't have an accurate 1210 pitch control faders

I'll do you a couple.
 

woops

is not like other people
i suppose it just annoys me that more of this stuff isn't more musical, melodic, song-like, engrossing. the boring stuff is so dull it puts me off listening through for the incredible gems.


this thread as a plea for help
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
Having said that, Kerri Chandler's swing feel is pretty much what I was getting at in that op quote


The interplay between all the rhythmic elements. So bompty. Playful. But this is out of context, it doesn't have the same effect as feeling it on a club system

Kerri Chaos 6:23. Another who by sticking to their guns & innovating through subtlety & A+ key-work has a catalogue as good as anyone's. I could (and have) listened to his productions all day. He fully gets nuance, spatial awareness, compression, harmony, groove, less is more techniques. To my ears, his best work is timeless ie: hasn't seemed to age at all, where there are plenty of stylistic licks & signatures that define eras & the work of other producers. Will go the full Chandler in the House thread after this monstrous shift finally ends.
 
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Leo

Well-known member
i suppose it just annoys me that more of this stuff isn't more musical, melodic, song-like...

maybe the problem is a "rhythm basics thread" is the wrong place to look for those elements. much of this stuff is based on a groove, creating/building/repeating it, inherently not the place for song-like melody.
 

woops

is not like other people
maybe the problem is a "rhythm basics thread" is the wrong place to look for those elements. much of this stuff is based on a groove, creating/building/repeating it, inherently not the place for song-like melody.

fair enough point but that bergheim 34 proves (to me) it can be done, plus some of the stuff you lot are posting here
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
Rhythm basics - 7/4 time, which can open up to 14/8 or 28/16.

Devo nailed it with


Or you could loosen it (pun intended) further, such as Loose Lucy. Yes, those hippies again. Studio version is ok if a bit stilted, but the groove is there.


Too many live renditions to help, but take a more uptempo number from the early 70’s (with one drummer on hiatus) & you can hear how it *allows the band to swing compared to later, slower dirges. *Not cited for taste, but rhythm focus helped by one of the more innovative bass players in music.


Estimated Prophet’s 7/4 time. Slower, smokier groove supported by the Mutron guitar effect pedal. The bass is so off the kick drum tempo, it creates a different dynamic range altogether. I fucking love this track. Put specific version up due to performers geeing themselves up to conquer its unique peculiarities.


Sun Ra’s Arkestra could serve as useful rhythm workshops for various time signatures, from basics to the even more abstract releases, because they swing so consistently.
 

woops

is not like other people
7/4 time is an interesting thing to bring up in this thread 'cos it's very difficult to construct a pulse or groove that "works" with seven beats to the bar. the odd number breaks up the push-pull back and forth between the downbeat and the backbeat, which your head can make physical as you listen. i'd be surprised if there were any house or techno in 7/4 time, in fact i'll stick my neck out and say there isn't any please correct me if wrong

somehow 3/4 time and even 9/8 (which is 3x3) works well though and this may all be my western ear and programming.

bonus round. spot the count of 7 in these smash hits:
 

jorge

Well-known member
This came out recently in 7/8



You do get odd time signatures ocassionally in techno/house but usually as an part of a polyrhythm like the repeating melody in this track

 

woops

is not like other people
well i listened to Traxx - MOVE (1995) but i didn't find a track i liked until 30 minutes in, but i did like that one a lot.

the best way i can put it is that so many of these tunes just seem to go round and round, whereas the ones i like push forward.

maybe WashHands is right and it's just an accident of personal taste.

The stuff where they're looping one bar of a jazz record with a drum roll is not for me at all
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
well i listened to Traxx - MOVE (1995) but i didn't find a track i liked until 30 minutes in, but i did like that one a lot.

the best way i can put it is that so many of these tunes just seem to go round and round, whereas the ones i like push forward.

maybe WashHands is right and it's just an accident of personal taste.

The stuff where they're looping one bar of a jazz record with a drum roll is not for me at all

Youre just not a groove person. it's hard to explain the changing same to people who aren't schooled in that way of listening.

try some hard techno if you want forward momentum?


I'm much more of a techno person than patty it seems. those drum inflections he speaks about in the best house are also in the best techno but far more mechanised and industrial. The overlap between house and techno of course a huge one but maybe that's the end of it you lean to.
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
Might rhythm fatigue be a factor as much as tastes?

I mean we’ve been hammered by backbeats for what seems like most of my life span. Jazz, Dad rock, disco, afrobeat, plus mutations of genres from str8 4x4 to breaks to just about anything else. Add Aphex’s micro sequences of drum programming intricacies generating millions of shit clones, EDM’s perversion of rhythm as a whole, plus masses (masses) of diabolical & lazy dance-orientated music. I read a thread on here about culling 130bpm 4x4 bs & that’s an entirely sane response. Turn off, tune out.

It’s a bit of a cul de sac. How can anyone innovate? Does consolidating solid ground come with a price? Mark Fell is someone to drop in here, but, tbh some of his material I find a bit too abstract (but by no means generalising). Mates worship at his alter though. You can take the pulsing rhythms of drone worlds & ambient as a more fluid (& usually very well produced) landscape of sound that continues to push forward. Power electronics, industrial & noise too, but it’s a short step to conceptronica. If the track comes from someone spouting “my art is informed by...” then that’s as good a guide as any of bunk, ego-driven wank. I think harmony is in a similar position to rhythm in lots of ways, but taste & exposure play a massive part too.

The bottom line is I still haven’t listened to every lp I should, still plenty of Hafler Trio releases that need a thorough rinse, that’s where the real fun lies, finding the music you won’t know you’ll like until you actually listen to it. And there in lies the rub.

It’s been a long day, much of this may well be dribble.
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
Luis-Manuel Garcia* - On and On: Repetition as Process and Pleasure in Electronic Dance Music

ABSTRACT: Repetition has often been cast in a negative light, associated with immature or regressive states. This view is reflected in music criticism and pedagogy, recast in aesthetic terms and it also reappears in cultural criticism, attacking repetition as a dangerous tool for social control. Defenses that have been mounted in favor of repetition seem inadequate in that they tend to recategorize certain repetitive practices as not-quite-repetition, rather than defend repetition tout court. This article uses examples to provide an alternate approach to repetition that focuses on the experience of pleasure instead of a static attribution of aesthetic or ethical value. In particular, this is explored through three concepts: repetition as process, repetition as prolongation of pleasure, and process itself as pleasurable. Underlying these concepts is a formulation of pleasure first coined as Funktionslust, or "function pleasure," reconceived here as "process pleasure."

https://mtosmt.org/issues/mto.05.11.4/mto.05.11.4.garcia_frames.html
 
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