padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
material conditions and environment dictate a lot but ideas are material too
of course, idk who's denying of that. but "feedback loop" is so general as to be unhelpful.

where are the points of feedback? in what directions does it flow?

not that these things can be known perfectly, which is why history is a series of arguments rather than just a set of facts

idk exactly why you're referring to Spinoza there specifically, perhaps you could expound
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
history/philosophy is an artificial distinction, sure. all distinctions are artificial. we're finite beings, we have to categorize information somehow.

what I'm basically against is cosmology - especially of the stoned time is a flat circle variety - being mixed up with historical investigation

which isn't the same as saying that the study of human consciousness etc doesn't relate to the study of human events. of course it does.
 

luka

Well-known member
“Now, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, sir!”
 
That’s basically all Spinoza had to say is it not? This is all just one stuff. Everything is everything yeah? Cheers!
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
That’s basically all Spinoza had to say is it not? This is all just one stuff. Everything is everything yeah?
tbf this is kind of true

I read about half of Ethics in a philosophy book group at work and we were at great pains trying to understand exactly what the fuck he meant
 
The cognitive history stuff I’m getting from a book called the patterning instinct by Jeremy lent. I talked about it with luka before. I was pretty impressed by it but am not a history scholar so would be interested in your take

 

catalog

Well-known member
this is like clash of the titans. cautious padraig, shiels warming up, setting out his stall. hurl some philosophers lads

I dunno if this makes any more sense than the flat circle thing, but it sounds a lot tastier.
i like the word cosmogony, it is rarer, and contains the smaller word 'smog', which ive written an essay/novella about.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
what we basically arrived at in re Spinoza was that his conception of God was synonymous with the infinite potentiality of expression of matter

everything is the one substance, that which can only be brought about by itself, but which can be expressed in infinite ways, hence pantheism

I would be interested in understanding Spinoza better, but it's very difficult. and so dry, that Euclidean geometry manner of writing.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
either way, not really related to "history" except in maybe a history of the universe sense

I wouldn't refer to myself as cautious btw, more attempting to be precise in my thinking if it's a serious topic

serious topics deserve serious attention
 

catalog

Well-known member
that was actually a draft and it got posted by accident. hen i thought i'd leave it, but i should really delete it. i don't really wanna get involved in this, cos my facetiousness will shine through, so im gonna bow out now with apologies
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
The cognitive history stuff I’m getting from a book called the patterning instinct by Jeremy lent
I'd have to read the actual book to give a real opinion, but just reading the article I'll say I'm always skeptical of those kinds of sweeping nature of humanity deals, which are their own kind of historicism

not just a danger of losing the forest the trees but there's not even a way to tell when you are

I will say it's pretty ballsy to light on Confucianism of all things as your preferred answer

I agree with this much "Culture shape values, and those values shape history"

but, how? why? the problem is always sorting out the signal from the noise.
 
this is like clash of the titans. cautious padraig, shiels warming up, setting out his stall. hurl some philosophers lads

If it wasn’t for elders like Padraig this place would descend into madness. Droid is an exasperated laissez-faire father, his mind is on other things but he’s still keeping an eye, making sure you don’t fuck up completely. Padraig is your tough love older cousin.
 
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