Being nice and having love

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Luka and barty have to stay for obvious reasons. We need more people who start threads and think out loud. And for the craic, they’ll want to, because fucking about with your mates in a classroom is fun not in spite of, but because of the furious teacher and uninterested kids.

Taking the piss is an absolute necessity here. Having your thoughts and ideas seriously challenged is a necessity too. It would be a shit forum without both. I doubt anybody disagrees with this but feel its worth saying. And let’s admit that we enjoy a lot of the conflict too!
 

luka

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Staff member
I do like conflict but it became a war of attrition at a certain point, with beagle being the start of a new phase of constant bombardment. I burnt out on it. It meant we couldn't get anything going cos we would just get abused and derailed and waylaid and obstructed. i think it's a shame but maybe it's inevitable
 

droid

Beast of Burden
I know droid hates talking about this stuff but I find it fascinating. The group dynamics I guess. I wish there was a way of talking about it without upsetting people. The whole trajectory of it, the fights, the toxic banter, the team building excercises, the mad hysterical energy.
Theres a false dichotomy here. Its possible to have positive group dynamics without toxic behavior.

These kinda posts call people out, resolve nothing and inevitably lead to more conflict and resentment. Its like living in a shared house where some tenants insist on having a group meeting every week to air grievances under the pretext of group harmony. Yknow - the kind of thing that leads to beatings and murder.

We're in a position now where Baboon is gone (he was told to leave), Barty is gone, Padraig is probably out the door (TBF he's right in the epicentre of some awful real life stuff)... its clear this approach is highly destructive - and thats why I dont like it.

Ive said it countless times before, whats necessary here is restraint, empathy and discipline.

For example, I like Barty a lot, but I disagree with everything hes said here and I could go through exactly why hes wrong in excoriating detail. But I wont, because it would be damaging to a community and to people I love.

See - its that easy.
 

luka

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well you were the main reason he left actually. Your constant temper tantrums and hysterical denunciations. I know you mean well so I don't hold any grudges but your no angel are you.
 

luka

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I was trying to keep it friendly. If you read it you can see me carefully avoiding apportioning blame and trying to keep my tone very nice and gentle and humourous
 

droid

Beast of Burden
Yeah, thats good. Well done. Its positive.

Again, Ive said it before, and you can look through the record. Ive had a few moments, but I have never, ever started a thread calling people out or throwing accusations around. I generally only intervene when someone calls my name or I see awful behaviour that I think is damaging to the community or victimising individuals. In short, its reactive behaviour and responses to provocations.

Im sure Ive gotten things wrong now and again and I know you guys have constructed your own narrative, and thats fine - but my posts are there for all to see if anyone can be arsed looking - and the same goes for you.
 

droid

Beast of Burden
well you were the main reason he left actually. Your constant temper tantrums and hysterical denunciations. I know you mean well so I don't hold any grudges but your no angel are you.
Oh, and as far as I know, Barty left because he asked for apologies from people (not me) and didnt get them. I made a point of letting him know there was no bad blood on my part.
 

luka

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yes, it's there for everyone to read. And you're sophisticated enough to know that people have read it and will read it in any number of different ways.
 

luka

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It's not a history which will ultimately 'vindicate' either one of us. That's not how it works. Peoples sympathies will be determined by their own temperament, ethics and allegiances
 

luka

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Staff member
We both care enough that we lash out when we think some sacred value has been transgressed. That's why I don't hold any grudges against you cos I can see it's just a very different value set and temperment that you're operating from. But you care in the same mad, over committed way.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
TBH, barty, you and luke have been this sort of Platonic item from the moment you joined the forum, so you're not really the best-qualified person for giving an objective opinion on how he behaves or how others have behaved towards him. Further, I'll say that your closeness goes beyond simple friendship and very often looks from the outside like a sort of clique or tag-team. You've both got a certain amount of the playground mindset and obviously enjoy a pile-on.

Claims that neither of you have ever said anything nasty or engaged in bullying are rather at odds with the hounding of josef k, for example (and whatever you may think of the guy, his ideology or who he's chosen to stick up for, I haven't seen any actual evidence that he's a paedophile, and on the basis of the presumption of innocence, I'm sure he isn't one). Similarly, you'll forgive me if I didn't spot luka's playful smile or the wry twinkle in his eye when he said I danced on Palestinian children's graves.
sorry if you're going to let a Julius Evola fetishising fascist like Josef Kay off the hook I'm out of here.

The same person who talks about how everyone is antisemitic for disagreeing with you on Israel.

Come on man, philosemitism is not cool.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
sorry if you're going to let a Julius Evola fetishising fascist like Josef Kay off the hook I'm out of here.
What? I never "let him off the hook". By all means give the guy hell for having shitty opinions and associating with shitty people. I don't care, I don't know him and have no reason to stick up for him.

I just said that he's not actually a paedophile, as far as I know.
 
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