Where is the avant-garde?

[Corpsey]

Question is - do we need an Avant Garde? Why did they "need" one before?

 

[version]

Did we ever need it?

 

[version]

We did.

 

[Corpsey]

Why?

 

[pattycakes_]

To break free

 

[luka]

corpsey was perfectly happy with the pre-raphelites

 

[luka]

some pasty skinned maiden drowing in a lilly pond

 

[version]

Why?

Because art is as important as science in terms of pushing us forward, in terms of evolution.

 

[shiels]

I'd expect the most artistically creative people not to be working for Facebook but possibly writing or directing films/TV shows/video games. And that shapes what they can produce, because none of those mediums resemble books except for at the more superficial levels.

Many of the great things made today are created by huge production teams, agencies etc less heroically isolated men. The idea of the avant garde artist ‘where are the avant garde people?’ is what’s mourned in ‘resistance is futile’ thread and ‘where is the avant garde’ because we’ve grown up worshipping that heroic innovation, fantasised about realising it ourselves. That’s your real
Question: where are my heroes?

The modernist novelist or surrealist painter ideal is bound up in risk, daring, sacrifice, throwing shocking or strange and idiosyncratic stuff to a baffled audience after incubating it for years. Because that was the required approach to be top dog. today these people might be seduced by money making opportunities along the way, or the specialised skills of others who help realise their vision, or would see the value in the insight of a savvy audience and adapt to it, data, focus groups, iteration.

 

[luka]

much more important than science which is fake anyway

 

[Corpsey]

Where's it pushed us forward to? Another dead end?

 

[Corpsey]

much more important than science which is fake anyway

Science pushed art forward though!

No photography no Picasso (as we know him).

 

[Corpsey]

Is the logical endpoint of the Avant Garde the collapse of all criteria and values and "paintings" that look like a toddler's doodles?

 

[luka]

corpsey! can you please stop misbehaving!@

 

[pattycakes_]

We did.

Past tense, you think? If so, any idea what's needed now?

 

[pattycakes_]

Where's it pushed us forward to? Another dead end?

Looks like we've past it. Not too many people taking themselves seriously enough now.

 

[luka]

Many of the great things made today are created by huge production teams, agencies etc less heroically isolated men. The idea of the avant garde artist ‘where are the avant garde people?’ is what’s mourned in ‘resistance is futile’ thread and ‘where is the avant garde’ because we’ve grown up worshipping that heroic innovation, fantasised about realising it ourselves. That’s your real
Question: where are my heroes?

The modernist novelist or surrealist painter ideal is bound up in risk, daring, sacrifice, throwing shocking or strange and idiosyncratic stuff to a baffled audience after incubating it for years. Because that was the required approach to be top dog. today these people might be seduced by money making opportunities along the way, or the specialised skills of others who help realise their vision, or would see the value in the insight of a savvy audience and adapt to it, data, focus groups, iteration.

there's some truth in this but also it sounds like something you read in a book and just repeated. doesn't sound like it belongs to you or that you really feel it in your bones. doesn't feel emotionally true to me.

 

[version]

Because art is as important as science in terms of pushing us forward, in terms of evolution.

 

[pattycakes_]

I should have said "We do", but I asked the question in past tense so answered it in kind.

You think we need it now? Feels like it's peaked for a while to me. But no idea what's next or what's needed.

 

[shiels]

doesn't feel emotionally true to me.

which bit?