The Fog of War: Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara (2003)

version

Well-known member
- very late to this one, but watched it last night and thought it was great. Apparently the one Morris did with Rumsfeld's just horrible because the guy shows no remorse or humanity whatsoever whereas McNamara comes across as though he's genuinely thought about and wrestled with what he's done. Obviously that doesn't absolve him, but it's at least something... assuming he's sincere.

00224a5c.jpeg
 

version

Well-known member
The section where he discusses the firebombing of Japan during WW2 was really fucking grim. I actually get a bit of a Dominic Cummings vibe from him in the sense that he was a number cruncher trying to run everything based on efficiency and statistics.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
I watched this in The Other Cinema in Soho when it first came out, with a continuous flow of red wine from the bar. I remember: the section about seat belts; the way he jabbed his pen at the camera; a terrifying piece of stock footage of a hydrogen bomb test.

I didn't see the Rummy one, but how could the director have expected that to have been the same? It was made less than 10 years after the stuff Rumsfeld was being expected to atone for actually happened; he was still smarting from effectively being fired and replaced by Robert fucking Gates; he was still tangled up in the unfolding present of those decisions he had been part of in Afghanistan and Iraq and, therefore, was still out to defend that record, which he can do more eloquently than people give him credit for and than he sometimes bothers to (he does do it in his autobiography, which somehow strikes a strange balance between elegance and brutishness).
 

craner

Beast of Burden
However, I can see the logic of the comparison. McNamara and Rumsfeld both essentially corporate guys, who tried to bring the principles and practices of private sector business to the Pentagon.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I've seen this film but it was a long time ago so I can't really comment on it.

Morally, it's obviously more satisfying to see a man atone for his sins. But I think I'm actually more fascinated by somebody who did horrible things and is unrepentant about it. Does that make sense?

Maybe not. Have you seen The Act of Killing, version?
 

version

Well-known member
Yeah, I have. Strange film. I wasn't that impressed by it, but it was pretty moving by the end.
 

luka

Well-known member
the act of killing is firmly in the monster energy drink continum. people who love eminem and south park love it.
 

luka

Well-known member
something very pure about it. the boomer sublime. kerouac. mailer. jim morrison. choppers over saigon. easy rider.
 
Top