The Gut

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Not jesus, nor buddha
OK, so genuine pacifists do exist - but consider ideologies writ large: which of them doesn't consider itself to uphold freedom against tyranny and righteousness against evil, and to confer on itself the right to use violence, including lethal force if needed, to achieve this? At the very least you can see this in communists, conservatives, fascists, even liberals (if the "bad dudes" are in Iraq, Afghanistan...), Evangelicals, Salafists, Zionists...
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
idk. Everything I've read about revolutions make me think they'd be absolutely horrible to live through if you managed to survive.. So I'm more in favour of shallow liberal reformism.

Though at this juncture, that seems to be doing fuck all to resolve things, most pressingly climate change so maybe there's a case for armed revolution and blowing things up.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
People do seem to map their own sublimated aggression and life dissatisfactions into any revolutionary project though. So I'm suspicious of these people. Said with a psychoanalysts eye.
 

pattycakes_

Well-known member
I went there once actually. They were in the economic doldrums, but they'd kept themselves free from American influence and were very proud of the fact. Stark contrast to Costa Rica next door.
 

luka

Well-known member
People do seem to map their own sublimated aggression and life dissatisfactions into any revolutionary project though. So I'm suspicious of these people. Said with a psychoanalysts eye.

It's true of course but it doesn't really get you anywhere
 

luka

Well-known member
The same goes for any politics. Your fatalism and conservatism correlate with similar psychological quirks. Everyone is fucked in the head and that expresses itself in everything they think do say desire. But you can't dismiss political ideas on that basis.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
I went there once actually. They were in the economic doldrums, but they'd kept themselves free from American influence and were very proud of the fact. Stark contrast to Costa Rica next door.
Was Nicaragua in generally a better state or a worse one than Costa Rica, would you say? Or was better in some ways and worse in others?
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
The same goes for any politics. Your fatalism and conservatism correlate with similar psychological quirks. Everyone is fucked in the head and that expresses itself in everything they think do say desire. But you can't dismiss political ideas on that basis.
Yeah, seems more stark with revolutionaries though. The surface is always about a perfect society, hugging the homeless, peace and love for all mankind. You see how long that lasts though, the moment you ask a critical question.
 

pattycakes_

Well-known member
Was Nicaragua in generally a better state or a worse one than Costa Rica, would you say? Or was better in some ways and worse in others?

Financially Costa Rica was obviously well ahead, but the people in Nica were really down to earth and seemingly more together as individuals and a nation
 

luka

Well-known member
Yeah, seems more stark with revolutionaries though. The surface is always about a perfect society, hugging the homeless, peace and love for all mankind. You see how long that lasts though, the moment you ask a critical question.

You have to be careful with this line of thought. It leads to bad places. You end up characterising all left wing politics as envy and resentment. You might as well just say the strong are born to rule at that point. It's the natural order of things
 

luka

Well-known member
I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm saying it's right. But you can't dismiss the politics on that basis.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
You have to be careful with this line of thought. It leads to bad places. You end up characterising all left wing politics as envy and resentment. You might as well just say the strong are born to rule at that point. It's the natural order of things
Oh, I can accept a lot of comes from the urge for a better world. Dreaming big. But there often seems to be a terrible shadow when these things come into the world. It's part of my attraction to boring old centrism. Sensible stuff that makes incremental positive changes to people's lives. I can accept that's not what the world needs to address crisis but that's part of the attraction. Boring bank managers with big glasses in charge. Steady pay rises and cheap childcare.
 
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