Brotherhood

[sufi]

I came across a couple of male dominated cliques i'd never heard of before yesterday, which made me reflect on this place. Obviously we're not devoted to misogyny or to Jesus, but the comparison is entertaining

Firstly Laura, who started #everydaysexism 8 years ago, which i think has had profound effects leading to #metoo and even #blm, by demonstrating that by coming out to protest this stuff en masse we can make change happen, writing about this bunch of scrotes in the gruaniad:

Men going their own way: the rise of a toxic male separatist movement

The men of the MGTOW movement aim to live their lives with no female contact. The idea began on the fringes of the internet – so how has it made it all the way to the White House?

www.theguardian.com

I guess if they didnt exist by now they'd have had to be invented, there's a turd shaped space in the pop consciousness ready for them

secondly, and a lot more interestingly, kind of off the beaten track there was a documentary about the bruderhof https://www.bruderhof.com/

Inside the Bruderhof

The story of an unusual village in Sussex where there’s no crime, debt or homelessness.

www.bbc.co.uk

they are 2700 christian socialists who live in an archipelago of small communities around the world where they don't have personal possessions. they do a lot of singing and praying, and observe "traditional gender roles". When a kid reaches the age when they start wondering if they want to stick with the community, they are allowed to go away and check out the world - the film followed a girl who left their village in sussex and was staying in their shared house in pecknam, undergoing severe culture shock. she said "i feel like i'm a time traveller"
somehow like this place they celebrate their non-conformism, but in some ways they are like ISIS too, they all come across as open and thoughtful and committed, very modern and conscious. They seem open anyway, their websites are very welcomey, but there are questions in my mind that arent answered there or on wikipedia

Nonconformity to the world - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

kind of like amish, but integrated in modernity much more (though still very very white). i've visited intentional communities before (non-religious ones) and found it an eye opener in terms of another world is possible, not sure i'd want to share trousers with luka though

I wonder if we can somehow formalise our male clique here (with Mr Tea as grand wizard obvs), maybe get some premises, start some businesses, any ideas?

 

[luka]

Yeah I really like the gentlemans club ambience. No girls allowed. I cherish it. If girls turned up and enjoyed it it would be interesting to see how the dynamics changed. I don't think it would spoil things or ruin it. But I don't have any issues at all with this being a boys club. I enjoy male company. I don't think it is sinful. I know you feel the same Sufi. I remember you comparing it to the all male khat lodges of Yemen and Somalia.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

they all come across as open and thoughtful and committed

I came some of these folks once in my days as a crusty trainhopping youth

they were very nice. the men would talk to us occasionally.

there was some shared fringe cultural space, dropping out, rejection. they were, like us, into dumpster diving, repurposing things, etc.

the women weren't (I think) allowed to talk to men outside the community, but left on a couple occasions a basket of food as a gift.

I recall the men looking like a cross between Salafi clerics, Amish, and yr typical stereotype of a ca. early 2000s beard/glasses Brooklyn hipster.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

the U.S. is rife with that kinda thing

probably to be expected given the country was founded by religious dissenters

here in Chicago there was, still is I think, a Christian commune including punks who you'd occasionally see at shows

and I've run into Christian hippies plenty of times - Twelve Tribes people in New England for one

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

back on-topic, I'm all for brotherhood

I think it's a very important outlet for expressing masculinity in non-toxic ways

tho this place would be much better if we had a nomad around these days

 

[shiels]

I don’t hate it either but I do think it’d be a much better place with more women. gender balance makes life and conversation more interesting in all kinds of ways. Our youth recruitment drive worked a great... now we need to get some more girls in here

 

[luka]

you're kidding yourself.

 

[luka]

Talk to girls in your own time. They'll never step foot in here. And why should they? If they were into it they'd already be here. Don't fret about it.

 

[shiels]

I interviewed Russell brand a couple of years back and he said

“When I’ve been in all male support groups, you go in thinking everyone’s going to talk about violence but it quickly becomes about emotions – about men crying. I’ve seen men be very open and it’s moving, telling each other that they love each other and need each other. It’s amazing! A very important part of my recovery was company with other men. For me it really helps me to be exclusively around men when talking about my own mental health. And I notice in the support groups I go to that men behave differently when there aren’t women there.”

“And fucking hell, if you go to conventional male environments such as football matches and see the places where men are allowed to express emotion – whether its anger or whatever – some of these men are pretty keen to give you a cuddle. I like to think that our vulnerability can be cajoled out of us

“When I’m around men that are traditionally seen as really intimidating and threatening, I really try my best to see them, who they are, the layers. And because I’ve spent a lot of time in prisons and with a lot of men who’ve had issues with violence, I talk all the time about fear, vulnerability. I tell them ‘I’m afraid of this, I don’t think I’m good enough, I’m not a proper enough man, this thing happened with my step dad. Oddly, I’m very loving to them and it’s really effective. It makes them giggle!”

 

[shiels]

you're kidding yourself.

im not, it’s a stifling and restrictive energy the all male group. Amazing in very small doses but eventually completely dry and depressing, kills my joy. When this place is at its worst I blame it on the maleness.

 

[luka]

Why do you come here then? Hang out with your girl mates!

 

[shiels]

Also I have a woman’s brain. A science museum game told me so it’s a fact

 

[shiels]

Why do you come here then? Hang out with your girl mates!

to flirt with you!

 

[luka]

That's why everyone comes here!

 

[luka]

That's why we can't have any girls. They'd compete with me for male attention.

 

[luka]

But honestly though, I don't worry about it. All you can do is try to create an energised and Inspiring work environment and trust in that to draw other interesting people in, people who are willing to work and participate and grow the thing.

 

[luka]

You are a boy so the things you recoil from are things which belong to you too. You can't blame them on other people, 'toxic men' etc. It's all part of the fun, even the ugly bits. Learn to love your masculinity!

 

[shiels]

But honestly though, I don't worry about it. All you can do is try to create an energised and Inspiring work environment and trust in that to draw other interesting people in, people who are willing to work and participate and grow the thing.

And he groans at me for corporate HR speak...

 

[luka]

I did it deliberately!

 

[shiels]

One of the things that mother ayahuasca told me on the second night when it all got a bit weird was that i shouldn’t be so dismissive of competitive male energy, that I should harness and respect and work with it