The Garden of Forking Paths

luka

luka

Well-known member
luka said:
if you read a bit about therapy from Freud on this is one of the primary dangers they warn you of.
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This sounds more antagonistic and condescending than, in retrospect, I would like to be. Forgive me.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
see Donald Ewen Cameron

In spite of his high professional reputation, he has been criticized for, among other things, administering electroconvulsive therapy and experimental drugs, including poisons such as curare, to patients and prisoners without their informed consent, and his role in the history of the development of psychological and medical torture techniques. Some of this work took place in the context of the Project MKUltra program for the developing of mind control and torture techniques, psychoactive poisons, and behavior modification systems.[6] Decades after his own death, the psychic driving technique he developed continued to see extensive use in the torture of prisoners around the world.[7]
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former patient testimony said:
Diagnosed as an acute schizophrenic -- she had gone to Dr. Cameron for treatment -- she spent 86 days in the "sleep room" and was subjected to 109 shock treatments and megadoses of barbiturates and other drugs. Reduced to a Blank Slate

When she got out of the experiment, she could not read or write, had to be toilet-trained and could not remember her husband, her five children or any part of the first 26 years of her life.
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sus

sus

Moderator
(not taking sides, obviously there are bad people in all disciplines, abuse of power is easy once you have power etc etc)
 
sus

sus

Moderator
actually the De Landa interview @version posted talks about the psychedelics side

I just saw the Doors movie. Jim Morrison just tried to break on through to the other side too fast, thinking that all you had to do was take more and more acid. When you can’t break through anymore, when you bounce off it, you become resentful and turn to death.
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shiels

shiels

_
Tripping certainly makes our model more malleable, very fluid while on psychedelics and the effects are longer lasting if you take it seriously and work at it. Epistemological lubricant. But the recalibration, the snapback can also be quite hardcore i think… the ego has its revenge . changes aren’t always totally positive. One of their key concepts is suggestibility. So, more suggestible to your own intentions, efforts at self understanding or healing or whatever. But also become more suggestible others, to any old thing. Which is why we have to be careful what we expose ourselves to in these states
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
We've talked about this a lot in terms of Reynolds zone of fruitless intensification. Third form doesn't agree with me. He thinks I'm a square and that once you hit he ZFI it's time to push harder, into psychosis and beyond.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
shiels said:
Tripping certainly makes our model more malleable, very fluid while on psychedelics and the effects are longer lasting if you take it seriously and work at it. Epistemological lubricant. But the recalibration, the snapback can also be quite hardcore i think… the ego has its revenge . changes aren’t always totally positive. One of their key concepts is suggestibility. So, more suggestible to your own intentions, efforts at self understanding or healing or whatever. But also become more suggestible others, to any old thing. Which is why we have to be careful what we expose ourselves to in these states
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I almost always do it alone. 99 times out of 100.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
big sample size there luka

Anyone have stories of snapbacks to share?

The first coupla times I tripped I really got bent sideways; nowadays I think my response is more normal, regardless of dose, the physics of the world stay the same, a stable ego voice exists that talks me out of potential delusions

But man, first few trips, I thought people were telepathically communicating to me, I had no sense of exterior/interior boundaries everything bled together, everything was so damn pink and blue in the visual field, I felt like I'd stepped into a complete alien world, at night I saw everything on a three-dimensional green laser matrix.

Once I got this idea that came back when I did nitrous (this was college, I was stupid, okay?) that I had to go find my friend River, that he'd give me the next stage of my mission. What that mission was I guess I'd find out, but the same exact feeling kept sneaking up on me, like the same circuits clicking into place. I still get some version of that, you know? Where suddenly your brain circuit clicks into a place you've been exactly before and you just freeze up, and you're exactly where you were seven years ago when your brain completed the circuit that way the first time, and you can't articulate the feeling, it's just a completion.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
My girlfriend at the time, a Middle Eastern gal who hadn't had much experience with drugs, thought I was never gonna be okay again, I had to lock myself in a room to get away from the idea
 
WashYourHands

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
For every MK ultra psych-spook there are practitioners like Ben Sessa at Bristol and J Bisson pioneering the use of previously taboo compounds in the treatment of addiction and trauma. Roland Griffiths at JH in Baltimore has taken the lead here, ironic that it’s the Yanks doing a 180, but Britain is pushing forward too. David Nutt’s podcast is a useful, layman-weighted guide into current developments, new results on DMT and brain imaging are spectacular.

As for pushing through the wall into psychosis - there’s no guarantee of a return leg back to Earth. If you’re John Balance, that might seem agreeable, but my sanity has been earned the hard way too.

My last excursion into the mushroom realm was a genuine breath of fresh air. Hard work because of people lost since the previous trip decades ago, but you face the pain, embrace the loves previously lost and move on. It helped having two old mates there, more regular expeditionaries in recent years. I knew those obstacles were coming, possibly the underlying reason for imbibing in the first place, but it was a blast too. Poignant, beautiful, ugly, traumatic, everything appropriate to to the term ineffable and, just as you went out too far, voices of friends in the woods would ground you with daft humour like “this wood is full of fucking owl gods”, before an owl would fly right over our heads and settle in the branches. Warm weather and clear skies def helped.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
@WashYourHands You think there's something to that idea that when you re-enter the space, it's like you're picking up where you left the space last time? I always wonder about that and your bit about "since the previous trip" and tragedy in the in-between feels like it's on that wave-length
 
WashYourHands

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
If I can keep up with the posts!

That transitional intersection where “I” becomes “self”, before coagulating back to I/ego.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
luka said:
We've talked about this a lot in terms of Reynolds zone of fruitless intensification. Third form doesn't agree with me. He thinks I'm a square and that once you hit he ZFI it's time to push harder, into psychosis and beyond.
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this is actually shown in maths, concepts of Pareto frontiers & tradeoffs

there's a formal reason moderation & temperancce are more effective than abuse
 
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