Dune

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
the first book has an almost Tristram Shandy element where he spends the whole thing trying to leave the city with endless discursions

there's an almost Joycean level of allusion, symbolism, etc, and endless stories within stories within stories

Wolfe has also has a thing for using Latin words as neologisms of the far future, which I always approve of
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
the protagonist is a sociopathic torturer - not sadistically, that's his job, he's in the torturer's guild - who's still probably the most sympathetic character
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
2049 I thought did well at what it was going for, a visual-forward sci-fi pseudo-epic. Grade A cyberpunk porn. Unless anyone thinks it was aiming higher than that.
I think it probably was - it delves into all the original's biz about who's actually a replicant and what does it mean to be human

but it was still pretty good. Gosling is always solid. Jared Leto could've toned it down a good 50%.

more like Grade B+ as cyberpunk porn
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Both Catholics too. One lapsed, one practicing.
yeah I was gonna mention. Herbert converted to Buddhism tho iirc.

Wolfe's Catholicism definitely comes across

not directly, nothing about his writing is direct, but in both allusion and the overall Gothic cathedral vibe
 

version

Who loves ya, baby?
I have this gut feeling despite not having read either that Wolfe and Mervyn Peake are going to feel similar to me.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I meant Wolfe and Joyce, not Wolfe and Herbert. I didn't know Herbert was a Catholic.
yeah Herbert was born into an Irish Catholic family

supposedly the Bene Gesserit had roots in, besides the actual Jesuit Order, his collection of Catholic aunts

taking the Jesuits of ca. the the 16th-18th C or so with all that implies and making them women
 

version

Who loves ya, baby?
It was interesting to read the Jesuit stuff in Mason & Dixon as they don't seem to be a thing for conspiracy theorists at all these days. I'm assuming due to having little to no influence now. Apparently there was even a theory they were responsible for the sinking of the Titanic.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I think it probably was - it delves into all the original's biz about who's actually a replicant and what does it mean to be human
btw related to another recent thread, the other major theme of the book Blade Runner is based on is none other than empathy

that movie basically leaves it out, but what distinguishes replicants from humans is their inability to feel empathy

that's what the test with all the questions is supposed to establish - it's the central theme tying all the questions together
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I'm assuming due to having little to no influence now
most likely yeah

if you look at the Jesuit heyday tho they rapidly accumulated power as a collective eminence gris

Ignatius of Loyola was a properly mad fucker, the kind of personage secret history conspiracy types should go mad for

they're an interesting contradiction, this militant soldier of God Counter-Reformation deal crossed with liberality - mitigating the worst of colonial abuses

famous for their sophistry and complicated dealings

the Bene Gesserit up the subtle and tone down the soldier bit - they can kick fucking ass but they don't want that to be common knowledge

there's a pretty decent and well-meaning mid-80s flick about Jesuits in the New World starring De Niro, Jeremy Irons + Liam Neeson
 

version

Who loves ya, baby?
I caught some of The Mission on TV years ago and remember cracking up at the scene where one of the locals happens upon Irons playing his oboe and snaps it in front of him. Impossible not to think of Belushi in Animal House.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
That greyness is something which really bothers me. There's a certain sheen and blandness to a lot of stuff these days that makes it look like a glossy car ad.
yes exactly. what has gone wrong? it cant simply be about technology
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
it seems to be as difficult to make an adult film as it is to make adult music today
 
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