padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
you can easily google for more examples
cool let's look at yr sources. cos did you actually, like, read any of them?

every single one - except the Salon piece, which is also an author doing promo for a book about the history of secession in America - is overwhelmingly about the (relatively) bloodless means Trump could/did use to try to illegally retain power. they all mention violence the possibility of violence but it's a real stretch to say that any are predictions of a violent coup.

the first Atlantic piece says
Command of U.S. armed forces is among the most potent powers of any president. Could Trump dispatch active-duty forces to Democratic strongholds in swing states—say, Philadelphia, Detroit, and Milwaukee—with intent to suppress the vote or interfere with the count...Could it happen? Not easily, and not likely, but it is not impossible either.

the second Atlantic piece, in the middle of predicting, very accurately, exactly how Trump would try to steal the election, does mention a potential "nightmare" in which "Federal personnel in battle dress" intervene to restore order after a staged outbreak of violence by Trump supporters at polling places. which tbf, did not happen. it also says "this is speculation, of course" based on things he actually did or threatened to do over the summer.

and again, the main thrust is overwhelmingly voter suppression and dubious legal and procedural tricks, which did actually happen/is happening
The Atlantic said:
To a modern democratic sensibility, discarding the popular vote for partisan gain looks uncomfortably like a coup, whatever license may be found for it in law.

The Esquire piece is literally just block quotes of the second Atlantic piece

half of the Verdict piece is devoted to qualifying its use of the word "coup" (against liberal concern trolling) in the first place
There are reasons that we use modifiers to describe different types of coups. There are military coups, bloody coups, bloodless coups, silent coups, people’s coups, aborted coups, and so on.

What needs to happen for Trump and the Republicans to pull off a bloodless coup?

Even if this is Trump’s last gasp at a bloodless coup

Neither the Secret Service nor members of the military or other law enforcement will (other than some rogue actors) carry out illegal orders
it does mention potential Proud Boys violence and Trump installation of loyalists at the Pentagon and intelligence agencies, both things which, again, actually happened
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
so like, either find better sources - if it's so easy that shouldn't be a problem - or stop trying to make it seem like there was a hysterical wave of violent coup predictions that totally failed to materialize

but don't take my word for it. anyone interested go read those pieces yrself - they're short, it won't take you more than 15 minutes - and decide if they reasonably support the claim that "lots of ppl said there would be a violent coup if Trump loses".

meanwhile in re legitimacy being a two-way street, here's one of vimothy's own sources in re GOP voter suppression (all emphasis mine obv)
Barton Gellman said:
There is no truth to be found in dancing around this point, either: Trump does not want Black people to vote. (He said as much in 2017—on Martin Luther King Day, no less—to a voting-rights group co-founded by King, according to a recording leaked to Politico.) He does not want young people or poor people to vote. He believes, with reason, that he is less likely to win reelection if turnout is high at the polls. This is not a “both sides” phenomenon. In present-day politics, we have one party that consistently seeks advantage in depriving the other party’s adherents of the right to vote.

[Trump's own deputy campaign manager said] “Traditionally it’s always been Republicans suppressing votes … [Democrats’] voters are all in one part of the state [Wisconsin], so let’s start playing offense a little bit. And that’s what you’re going to see in 2020. That’s what’s going to be markedly different. It’s going to be a much bigger program, a much more aggressive program, a much better-funded program, and we’re going to need all the help we can get.”

Of all the favorable signs for Trump’s Election Day operations, Clark explained, “first and foremost is the consent decree’s gone.” He was referring to a 1981 court order forbidding Republican operatives from using any of a long list of voter-purging and intimidation techniques. The expiration of that order was a “huge, huge, huge, huge deal,” Clark said...

...Voter fraud is a fictitious threat to the outcome of elections, a pretext that Republicans use to thwart or discard the ballots of likely opponents. An authoritative report by the Brennan Center for Justice, a nonpartisan think tank, calculated the rate of voter fraud in three elections at between 0.0003 percent and 0.0025 percent. Another investigation, from Justin Levitt at Loyola Law School, turned up 31 credible allegations of voter impersonation out of more than 1 billion votes cast in the United States from 2000 to 2014. Judges in voting-rights cases have made comparable findings of fact.

Nonetheless, Republicans and their allies have litigated scores of cases in the name of preventing fraud in this year’s election. State by state, they have sought—with some success—to purge voter rolls, tighten rules on provisional votes, uphold voteridentification requirements, ban the use of ballot drop boxes, reduce eligibility to vote by mail, discard mail-in ballots with technical flaws, and outlaw the counting of ballots that are postmarked by Election Day but arrive afterward. The intent and effect is to throw away votes in large numbers.
 

sufi

lala
In many countries even attempting a coup is sufficient to land in a lot of trouble
i asked a few pages back how come Trumpo's violation of the norms of post-defeat conduct aren't illegal by themselves, but oddly there's this thing about conceding which undermines the whole deal with this sort of vague expectation of gentlemanly behaviour
needs updating
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
cool let's look at yr sources. cos did you actually, like, read any of them?

every single one - except the Salon piece, which is also an author doing promo for a book about the history of secession in America - is overwhelmingly about the (relatively) bloodless means Trump could/did use to try to illegally retain power. they all mention violence the possibility of violence but it's a real stretch to say that any are predictions of a violent coup.

the first Atlantic piece says


the second Atlantic piece, in the middle of predicting, very accurately, exactly how Trump would try to steal the election, does mention a potential "nightmare" in which "Federal personnel in battle dress" intervene to restore order after a staged outbreak of violence by Trump supporters at polling places. which tbf, did not happen. it also says "this is speculation, of course" based on things he actually did or threatened to do over the summer.

and again, the main thrust is overwhelmingly voter suppression and dubious legal and procedural tricks, which did actually happen/is happening


The Esquire piece is literally just block quotes of the second Atlantic piece

half of the Verdict piece is devoted to qualifying its use of the word "coup" (against liberal concern trolling) in the first place

it does mention potential Proud Boys violence and Trump installation of loyalists at the Pentagon and intelligence agencies, both things which, again, actually happened
giphy (1).gif
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Trump's donors I suppose... then again one of them is suing for the return of his 2.5m cos he thinks they wasted it on spurious court cases (duh).
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
URGENT PRAYER, we just now received this: "Just received a call directly from Sydney Powell's team. Asking for prayer. Stating they have "never felt such demonic attack before." Pray also for Trump Legal Team. Thank you. (please forward to serious intercessors)."
Fuck I love this shit.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Have you guys all been watching Pennsylvania? They're trying everything they can there to overthrow the vote... as well as the case Rudy lost on Friday and the recently released kraken, the GOP state senators have now said they want to decertify the vote (in the face of mounting evidence of overwhelming fraud) and appoint their own electors... also they have won some injunction from a judge who says the fraud cases have a significant chance of winning.
They're also trying to stop certification in Wisconsin now that the recount has found for Biden... it's absolutely attritional.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Yeah I think that is just total bullshit... it's only 26 guys pushing for it and there isn't even a vote scheduled... and if there was, they probably wouldn't win it, and I think if they did, the governor could probably veto... and even if it got through all that it would be incredibly dodgy and anti-democratic.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
But people seem to be going crazy about the court ruling... although as I read it it's a fairly lowly court and it's an opinion not an order. Plus the state is certified already isn't it?
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
So more excitement today... in Arizona mad Rudy and lying Jenna put on an hilarious show in the Hyatt Hotel, calling it a "hearing" as they presented 'evidence' of fraud and demanded the certification of the state was halted... just as the certification was announced, to predictable howls of rage from the Trumpletons. Wisconsin certified soon after, the last of the crucial swing states to do so. Trump has tried desperately to prevent this point being reached but has failed dramatically and repeatedly in all kinds of ways.
 

Leo

Well-known member
rudy and Jenna aren't doing anything legal, they're just on the extended leg of a PR media tour. staying in the news with "public hearings", LOL.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Yeah today was total pantomime. Organising a glorified press conference and calling it a "hearing" although obviously it had no judge or anything like that and no testing of their "evidence" - and then pretending to be outraged when the actual mechanism of the state certification process just totally ignored it.
What gets me is the way that they keep getting away with going on twitter and lying to their supporters saying they are litigating fraud in court when in fact when they actually get to court they specifically say "this is not a court case"and then try to throw votes out on the basis of stupid technicalities. Just amazing brassneck to tell enormous lies to the people who put them where they are, enormous lies in which they could very easily be caught if people just read the court filings.
I guess they know their people well enough to bank on them not doing that so that the scam can continue... but damn they are scum, exploiting their supposed friends like this.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Oh, also apparently Trump called the governor of Arizona during the certification ceremony in a desperate last ditch to stop him signing it... but he let it go to voicemail and certified anyway.
 
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Reactions: Leo

IdleRich

IdleRich
People realised this cos "Hail to the Chief" started playing randomly as he was signing the document and he - Ducey is it? The governor of Arizona - had previously told people that he'd set his ringtone to that for Trump so that he would never miss his calls...
 
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