Election 2020

[Mr. Tea]

no, not really.

"He hath ever but slenderly known himself."

 

[Leo]

we don't need any "new evidence" to know it's 100% plain-as-day certain that Putin wanted trump in because trump is easily manipulated and would (and did) fuck up the American system. you'd be a fool to disagree with that.

 

[Mr. Tea]

we don't need any "new evidence" to know it's 100% plain-as-day certain that Putin wanted trump in because trump is easily manipulated and would (and did) fuck up the American system. you'd be a fool to disagree with that.

Yeah but we don't have a hand-written document, in Putin's handwriting, titled "My secret evil plan to install Trump as POTUS and thereby weaken America", so we can't be sure.

 

[luka]

Putin idly wanting Trump to win over Hilary is one thing, Putin being the evil genius that masterminded Trumps victory is another.

 

[IdleRich]

Yeah but we don't have a hand-written document, in Putin's handwriting, titled "My secret evil plan to install Trump as POTUS and thereby weaken America", so we can't be sure.

That's what they just found.... assuming it's authentic.

 

[IdleRich]

But I get there are two or even three conspiracy levels here.
1. Putin wanted Trump - obviously true
2. Putin/Russia helped Trump - almost certainly true to some extent, but to what extent?
3. Trump's team met with Russians to collude on this - maybe true.... who knows?

 

[Mr. Tea]

But I get there are two or even three conspiracy levels here.
1. Putin wanted Trump - obviously true
2. Putin/Russia helped Trump - almost certainly true to some extent, but to what extent?
3. Trump's team met with Russians to collude on this - maybe true.... who knows?

Seems likely that all three are true, but both Trump's team and the Russians were smart enough not to leave any breadcrumbs that directly and personally connected Trump to any Russians with actual links to Putin, the FSB or whatever.

Or those breadcrumbs exist, and were found, but sufficiently nasty and credible threats were made to Mueller's family? Who knows.

 

[Mr. Tea]

At the very least, Don Jnr, Manafort and Kushner are known to have met with that lawyer who's close to Trump. And Mueller found enough other stuff to write a, what, 500 page report?

 

[luka]

a 500 page report so unimpressive it made literally no effect on the world whatsoever. the very dampest of squibs.

 

[Mr. Tea]

A lot of people went to jail. They just didn't get the big guy himself. The dominant faction of the Republican party was hell-bent on keeping him in power, and the rest of them were too chicken-shit to make any real effort to prevent that.

To put it another way: Tony Blair never went to jail, so was he innocent of any wrongdoing over the "sexed up" WMD dossier?

 

[Leo]

Putin idly wanting Trump to win over Hilary is one thing, Putin being the evil genius that masterminded Trumps victory is another.

the Kremlin absolutely had a social media propaganda effort in place to trash Clinton and support trump. that is not the same as being the mastermind who made the trump presidency a reality, but as rich said it certainly helped him to become president.

 

[luka]

in the same way you might say Zizek had a hand in it for endorsing Trump over Hilary. the responsibility ultimately rests with the American voters who elected him (albeit, yes, without winning the popular vote etc)

 

[Leo]

except no one in America aside from a few young'uns on dissensus knows who the hell zizek is or what he said. but tons of them are all on facebook and saw or shared the memes. I'm exaggerating but it's largely the case.

 

[WashYourHands]

i wanna see the piss tapes, don't you? even if it's a body double/actor and they had that contract shit pulled on them unless they said they had a good time (@version 's your man here)

 

[WashYourHands]

Russian voice "Look happy, President Trump, you loving odours and moist"

 

[Leo]

the flaw in the piss tape theory is trump has always need a germaphobe, literally the only America pol in existence who never kissed babies and shook hands with tons of people on the campaign trail. I would love it to be true, and who knows, maybe a germaphobe's ultimate kink turn on is a pee and poop fiesta. he might watch, not sure he could bring himself to participate, but who knows what goes on behind closed doors (aside from Putin).

 

[luka]

racists always want to have mad passionate sex with jews blacks etc so why not

 

[WashYourHands]

Fountains of piss, like Versales (Little Carmine)

 

[luka]

with the piss-tape and the putin collusion etc its not so much that i think it is impossible its that its so obviously wishful thinking, magical thinking even, that we all wanted some single revelation that would scupper his presidency. that is why i held it in contempt.

 

[Leo]

I get it. also, I'm not sure any single revelation would deter his supporters. they just roll with it.