IdleRich

IdleRich
No, I just completely misunderstood what you were saying. Sorry.
Ah fair enough.
Though it has now made me think about whether it was true or not. Before you said that it had never really crossed my mind that it could be made up... hmmm. It is - as you say - rather convenient, but then it's hardly beyond the realms of possibility that it was at the forefront of her mind before she fell off her perch. It was the first thing everyone else thought about let's be honest. Is it really worth telling a sneaky lie of this kind to appeal to the better nature of a group of people who have demonstrated time and time again that they haven't got one? Most of all though I'd guess it depends on the character of the granddaughter herself - is she a loving relative faithfully reproducing her beloved gran's last words, or is she more likely to be a shrewd political operative who - without casting any aspersions on her feelings for granny - might not be totally averse to putting a few words into her mouth that she didn't actually say but which she probably really did intend to say and which do fairly represent the way she felt? I don't know who can answer that question.
But to the wider point, yeah, I do want them to fight more dirtily - or not even dirtily, but I want them to be more ruthless. It would really annoy me if Biden won the election and then gave Trump some kind of stupid amnesty or something. I think that this gang of crooks have done a massive amount of damage to the remnants of American democracy and it would not be good enough to just say "Oh, well, they're out of power now so they can't do any more harm" - to even begin to get the ship back on an even keel it seems to me that they will need to completely smash this cabal, they need to set an example that says - No! You can't get into power and use the office to cover up countless illegal acts and then expect to walk away with us namby-pamby dems just saying "We don't want to further damage the reputation of the office so please go off quietly somewhere and we won't pursue you".
I don't even see that as fighting dirty. I think that they have a moral duty to pursue these crimes - which remember do include cheating in an election, treason, illegal payments and something dodgy with his taxes, wrongly releasing convicted criminals to protect themselves and so on. The criminals who did all this need to be aggressively pursued and to have the whole weight of the law thrown at them as hard as possible. That's not even fighting dirty, that's just common sense. Otherwise Trump will hang around just lying and saying that he was exonerated and that Biden gave him a medal as the best president of all time but he had to step down despite winning the vote cos... whatever, some shite.
In the same way, I think that if Trump gets another nominee on the court and makes it super-conservative, then, if Biden does indeed find himself in a position where he reverse that by changing the overall number of judges and appointing thirty lefties to it, then he should fucking do it. In fact he has a moral duty to do it. Again he would be acting within the law, he would be overriding convention but it's fucking obvious that that wouldn't cause his opponents to hesitate for half a second. It's definitely now at that stage where we know everything about Trump and his cronies - we know how they operate and how they have no morals.
That quote about "Fool me once, shame on you - but fool me twice, shame on me" is totally apt at this point. If they don't take these obvious steps then it's all gonna happen again. It's even George Bush minimus understood this situation (almost - go to 45 seconds below)


So to me, that's all pretty obvious and barely qualifies as fighting dirty. I guess you could say that lying about RBG's last words (if she did) would actually be slightly more sneaky than the above - but I honestly, at this point, would be totally happy for the dems to go pretty fucking far in stopping this nightmare, as long as it works and they get away with it then I'm all for it. As my brother always used to say "there is nothing so satisfying as to cheat a cheat" so bring it the fuck on is what I say.
 

Leo

Well-known member
as will rogers famously said: "I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."
 
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version

Well-known member
This is apparently a genuine quote from Trump's pick to replace RBG,

"... a legal career is but a means to an end . . . and that end is building the Kingdom of God.”
 

version

Well-known member
“I beat the socialist,” Mr. Biden said. “That’s how I got elected. That’s how I got the nomination. Do I look like a socialist? Look at my career — my whole career. I am not a socialist.”
 

version

Well-known member
mo243q58aoo51.jpg
 

Leo

Well-known member
he's got a point, discussion of the Supreme Court turns attention away from the administration's gross mismanagement of the pandemic, 200k corona deaths, untold economic damage, etc. but it is a legit topic.
 

Leo

Well-known member
so many people have mentioned that Atlantic article today, totally plausible that he'll try it.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I truly believe that there is nothing he won't try if he thinks it will help him stay in power. Well, I mean, he'll make some kind of primitive (obviously) risk/versus reward type calculation, I'm not saying that he will just try and shoot Biden, but basically he (and his team we have to assume at this point) will be considering strategy X on the grounds of:

How much will X increase my chances of wining (or staying in power without winning) vs How likely am I likely to get caught doing X and how serious will it be if I am caught

Obviously the legality of any of his projected future actions have only been considered in those terms for decades, and, as for the morality of any actions, I doubt that he knows the word as more than an abstract concept and probably it's a concept too hard for him to grasp anyway.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I'd like to think some of these people writing terrifying articles about the desperate measures that Trump might attempt when he loses are deliberately writing total nonsense in the hope that he just copies them and does something (else) unbelievably stupid that doesn't work at all and ends up with him in jail.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
The worst case, however, is not that Trump rejects the election outcome. The worst case is that he uses his power to prevent a decisive outcome against him.
This is the question I guess, they can't be the first to have thought about this, it's basically; will Trump cheat before/during the election or after? And I think we all know that the answer is both. I really have no idea what is going to happen, but I reckon everyone will agree that one thing we can be sure of is that the election will not take the form of a load of votes coming in, those votes being quickly counted and states being unambiguously allocated to the winners so that the electoral college takes shape and at some point, Trump sees that there is no path to a victory for him and graciously announces that he is disappointed to lose but happy to pass the presidency on to a good and decent man who has beaten him fair and square.
Oh man... that whole day is going to so fucking tense and infuriating as you see the lies spewing unchallenged and used to make outlandish claims which in turn will be used to justify actual real cheating.
 

Leo

Well-known member
our only hopes are 1) the margin of a biden victory is so great that none of this would hold water (not likely), 2) republicans come to their senses and place country before party, trump can't pulls off these types of shenanigans without their broad cover and support (also not likely), or 3) he's too chicken to try.

think about it: he's bigmouth, a blustering bully who likes to talk a big game but so much of it is just talk: tweets about how he's going to make a dramatic policy change but it never actually happens, empty threats against allies or firing people, etc.

in the event of a trump loss (which is far from certain), my gut says it's even money whether he goes mental and tries to pull a coup or just makes a bunch of excuses/blames others and leaves office.
 

sufi

lala
that article makes is seem like the path of least resistance is that the pres stays on. biden has zero :(
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I think there is a slight chance some of the Rs will find their backbone if he tries something utterly egregious. Isn't it possible that some senators will think "I'm ahead in the polls and fairly confident of a personal win, do I want to be a senator next term in a democracy that is still working, albeit under a Democratic president (one that I know is really - despite all the Trump lies - far from being a radical leftie, and whose policies I'm not really that scared of), or do I want to be a senator with a Republican president with an actual destroyed democracy?
Now of course that depends on what he's thinking of trying and how spineless his party is, slight glimmer of hope that they did push back vocally when he mooted changing the election date which suggests that there is some kind of line somewhere at least... or there was a few months ago anyhow.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
he's bigmouth, a blustering bully who likes to talk a big game but so much of it is just talk: tweets about how he's going to make a dramatic policy change but it never actually happens, empty threats against allies or firing people, etc.
I think that's wishful thinking though, I think he fears the consequences of a loss enough to do a lot more than just bluster.
 
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