Context Collapse
- Thread starter sus
- Start date
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
you'd have to point to where I said having more academic types was more desirable
I don't think it's more or less desirable
I do push back against luka's anti-intellectualism thing but that's not the same as saying the board sux cos there aren't enough philosphy PhDs
I don't drink either so water and lime is entirely amenable
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
Not snidely quipped at all. The core feeds the canon, the canon becomes an unquestionable zenith by people who were still children during said events. Context.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I didn't know that, I looked forward to him relating it to giallo films
version
Well-known member
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
by that reasoning no one is capable of critically judging something they didn't personally live through
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
@padraig (u.s.) Unquestionable, un-lived zeniths and lived experience aren’t the same, no.
A dilution of minds capable of postgrad levels of criticism. Maybe so, but you have to work with what you’ve got.
A dilution of minds capable of postgrad levels of criticism. Maybe so, but you have to work with what you’ve got.
sus
Moderator
Yeah I guess I was just trying to get a sense of the sense of... value? A peek at the hierarchy of qualities people care about and look for and pick out, that gets revealed in an affinity.
e.g. it seems there's some real interest in like, the militant avant-garde worldview, but also counter-culture and the kind of Blakesean ecstatic expression... it's different than the sensibilities I came up with, be they indie (as a teenager) or the academic canon of poetry & literature, or the NYC canon...
Even heard talk about the gap btwn "prog-rock" taste vs the "artsy avant" taste—Gaddis, Pynchon types vs Acker, Burroughs types—but that logic itself is defied here a bit, even if only by the small group who's interested in talking about it
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
of course there's a missing element, it doesn't eliminate one's ability to appreciate and critically reason about something
I can argue the reverse, that "being there" makes it harder to critically appraise something separate of your own memories of it
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
show me where I said a "postgrad level of criticism" was more or less desirable than what we have now
you're making up a negative element I have never expressed. I know I didn't express it because I don't believe it.
there are both advantages and disadvantages to having more academic types, but it's not "better" or "worse" in an overall sense, just different
sus
Moderator
I've been thinking a lot about the problems of "not being there" for something
The way that culture is like this ongoing festival of performances, happening on many stages simultaneously, and it's impossible to catch all of it. People stumble in midway, they sit next to folks who've been watching for 40, 50 years, and they get frustrated because they can't understand an in-joke or back-reference on-stage, or the older folks are frustrated by the lack of subtlety in explaining the reference they already got...
The way that culture is like this ongoing festival of performances, happening on many stages simultaneously, and it's impossible to catch all of it. People stumble in midway, they sit next to folks who've been watching for 40, 50 years, and they get frustrated because they can't understand an in-joke or back-reference on-stage, or the older folks are frustrated by the lack of subtlety in explaining the reference they already got...
sus
Moderator
Another problem, familiar to oldtimers of chatrooms, chans, and superorganisms everywhere, is rolling admission: the young’uns showed up yesterday, and they don’t get your inside jokes, and they want to talk about and do things that, well, everyone you know got bored of in the 90s (or that don’t even register as interesting to you).
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
sure
the best-placed person to write about something will always be someone who both lived thru it and studied it in retrospect
but people manage to write intelligently about things they didn't live through all the time
there are entire fields of study devoted to that
sus
Moderator
I was thinking about all this because of the conversations about indie rock, genre, guitar music. If you hadn't heard the original records, re-hashes aren't re-hashes, and the "quality" is there as if (the illusion is) it were the first time being made (because it's the first time getting heard). I was talking to a friend about Fellini's 8 1/2 and he was talking about how if it got made today, everyone would groan and clutch their stomach about how many pretentious tropes it was engaging in... But of course, it helped found those tropes
version
Well-known member
Whether you're there or not, it's like trying to drink a waterfall. There's no way you can ever really get the full picture.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
like should we all stop having opinions about Caravaggio because we didn't live through Baroque Italy
of course not
of course not
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
this is why I am 100% deadset against scoffing (or as he originally put it, guffawing) at people who "weren't there"
no one is born with some great wealth of cultural references. we were all some wide-eyed clueless teenager once upon a time.
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
All knowledge may be a construct of history, but experienced knowing through participation is first hand evidence, not 2nd hand. Acid house and rave and jungle and various other occurrences were part of broader cultural milieus. They were political in nature as much as they were artistic.
Both forms of accounts provide ‘evidence’, both are susceptible to scrutiny, but one allows for first hand insight. The same things occurs if you had a bloke who stumbled into a sweat-fest in the late 80’s never to return and another who spent the next fifteen years living it.
Context.
Sorry, but ‘properly’ rubbed me up the wrong way. I know you keep prefixing statements with ‘nothing personal’ etc, but that’s all I want to say.
Both forms of accounts provide ‘evidence’, both are susceptible to scrutiny, but one allows for first hand insight. The same things occurs if you had a bloke who stumbled into a sweat-fest in the late 80’s never to return and another who spent the next fifteen years living it.
Context.
Sorry, but ‘properly’ rubbed me up the wrong way. I know you keep prefixing statements with ‘nothing personal’ etc, but that’s all I want to say.