feels good to be associated with such a charming genius https://incels.wiki/w/Creep_(book_chapter)
Art an enemy of the people
- Thread starter kumar
- Start date
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
holy shit
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
yeah I had no idea. tho I guess it's not the biggest surprise.
one can only hope his views evolved in the intervening decades
never meet your heroes ain't it
one can only hope his views evolved in the intervening decades
never meet your heroes ain't it
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
obv he's a super weird iconoclast/contrarian in general but much of that is clearly indefensible
well, it is what it is
well, it is what it is
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
nah early 30s. he makes reference to something that happened in 1970 so he must've been at least 30. had lived in NY for 10+ years.
not that I wanna blame him single-handedly for incel culture or anything. tho it's eerie how exactly avant la lettre it is.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I don't wanna sidetrack the thread with puncturing my mental image of Henry Flynt, tho
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
right. even then I'd still personally prefer other words to "good" and "bad" with their implication of value judgment, taste, etc.
what we're dancing around in this thread seems to be how "art" - as a concept, in its production and consumption, and in individual works - interacts with power, and even if you qualify them good and bad don't really seem like helpful, I guess, vectors i.e. you're talking about power mechanisms. I don't think it really sidesteps rationality either - I agree ofc about the non-rational element in art-viewer exchange - just substitutes one's own preferences (taste) for some external conception of good/bad. the only way around the trap is to reject the dichotomy entirely, i.e. art (or creative production, if we don't want to say "art") isn't good/bad, it just is.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
lol I suppose
it's hard to reconcile "You Are My Everlovin'" - literally my favorite record of all time - with that essay
and he eventually went on to work closely with C.C. Hennix
so who knows
as always there are no heroes, just human beings who will eventually surprise you with both their virtues and their flaws
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I haven't studied much anthropology but I did take an intro course once
and one thing I remember from it, which this thread makes me think of, is that as soon as humans meet their material needs the very next thing they do invariably is some form of cultural expression - what we would now classify as art. it's universal across human cultures.
and one thing I remember from it, which this thread makes me think of, is that as soon as humans meet their material needs the very next thing they do invariably is some form of cultural expression - what we would now classify as art. it's universal across human cultures.
shiels
_
have painting, or sculpture or installations ie exhibition art, the art industry ...really said anything in the last fifty years?
is there devaluation because our phones are more powerful creative tools and more interesting and versatile exhibition spaces than anything in any installation ever? they’ve rewired our brains and and attention spans, they’ve muddled and distorted everything spatially and temporally, flattened...
undermined and vastly exceeded the conceptual power of painting, sculpture etc … its actual value and ability to influence the world…
while in another sense the lonely smart phone life spikes our desire for communal, physical art experience. So this category of art, this idea of art, and the role of the artist persists, but it needs a whole load of questionable theory and funding and institutional bullshit to restrict access somehow and maintain the illusion of conceptual currency. Still nobody really believes in it, and nobody really cares about an original painting in front of their eyes anymore, do they? we just like the sensual impact, the communal cultural experience, nice coffee, good lighting...
the environment the art is experienced in, the identity of the artist, their story are as important as any formal characteristics of art itself, the content.
is there devaluation because our phones are more powerful creative tools and more interesting and versatile exhibition spaces than anything in any installation ever? they’ve rewired our brains and and attention spans, they’ve muddled and distorted everything spatially and temporally, flattened...
undermined and vastly exceeded the conceptual power of painting, sculpture etc … its actual value and ability to influence the world…
while in another sense the lonely smart phone life spikes our desire for communal, physical art experience. So this category of art, this idea of art, and the role of the artist persists, but it needs a whole load of questionable theory and funding and institutional bullshit to restrict access somehow and maintain the illusion of conceptual currency. Still nobody really believes in it, and nobody really cares about an original painting in front of their eyes anymore, do they? we just like the sensual impact, the communal cultural experience, nice coffee, good lighting...
the environment the art is experienced in, the identity of the artist, their story are as important as any formal characteristics of art itself, the content.
john eden
male pale and stale
@kumar I thought that was really interesting. It reminded me a lot of the stuff Stewart Home was saying around the time of the Art Strike he did between 1990-1993 - https://www.stewarthomesociety.org/artstrik.htm
Home was also clear that the process of defining some things as Art (and excluding others) was needed to ensure the art market of commodities. He also used Henry Flynt's "Demolish Serious Culture" slogan. (Flynt as mentioned by @padraig (u.s.) )
One of the people Home worked with was Stefan Szczelkun whose "Conspiracy of Good Taste" I am always recommeding to people interested in middle class takes on working class culture - especially the bits about collectors of English folk music back in the day.
I think you're right that (some?) people here are repulsed and attracted to the ideological framework of Art.
Home was also clear that the process of defining some things as Art (and excluding others) was needed to ensure the art market of commodities. He also used Henry Flynt's "Demolish Serious Culture" slogan. (Flynt as mentioned by @padraig (u.s.) )
One of the people Home worked with was Stefan Szczelkun whose "Conspiracy of Good Taste" I am always recommeding to people interested in middle class takes on working class culture - especially the bits about collectors of English folk music back in the day.
I think you're right that (some?) people here are repulsed and attracted to the ideological framework of Art.
the process of classifying it as art is a particular historical event isnt it. like there might be exhibitions of aboriginal art, and you might be able to determine that the paintings and objects developed after certain material needs had been met and fulfilled some sort of ritual or contemplative function, but they were still made in a time that had a different/no awareness of the particular historical process of classifying things as art that comes out of europe. so calling it aboriginal "art" is incorrect, it ties it to a tradition and a set of assumptions that don't apply.
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
I do.