luka
Well-known member
no it's not.
Corona Conspiracies.
- Thread starter luka
- Start date
no it's not.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I'm not condescending tbc, it's an honest question
wild conspiracy theories I wouldn't bother disputing, what's the point
I'm asking if omnipresent, extremely widely discussed trends in marketing can be considered conspiracies
wild conspiracy theories I wouldn't bother disputing, what's the point
I'm asking if omnipresent, extremely widely discussed trends in marketing can be considered conspiracies
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
if the answer to that is yes, well as you say it says a lot about the exercise don't it
luka
Well-known member
im not suggesting you were being condescending. that was aimed at corpsey invoking the herd and their bovine supersitions. the people we sneer at.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
alright. well if you or your cousin have answer I'd be curious to hear it.
otherwise I'll leave you to it and wish you good hunting in beholding the pale horse
otherwise I'll leave you to it and wish you good hunting in beholding the pale horse
luka
Well-known member
we're finding knots and blockages and peoples ability, not so much to go with the paranoid drift, but to acknowledge and admit to that paranoid druift. we all search the possibility field, we all see things from a multitiude of angles. its part of having a brain.
and as we turn the dial, we alight, every now and again, on possibilities, or interpretations of the evidence, which send a cold fear through us. that's where conspiracy theory starts. this is a universal human experience.
we must interrogate those moments, subject them to rational anaylsis etc, but that is a later stage of the process. what we are doing here precedes that.
and as we turn the dial, we alight, every now and again, on possibilities, or interpretations of the evidence, which send a cold fear through us. that's where conspiracy theory starts. this is a universal human experience.
we must interrogate those moments, subject them to rational anaylsis etc, but that is a later stage of the process. what we are doing here precedes that.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
This was my thought, too. E.g. the UK is already the most CCTV-dense country in the world, bar China, and it's been that way for years. Ditto all the monitoring of internet traffic, email and SMS brought in as part of the War on Terror after 9/11.
Yeah yeah, I know, boring answer/wrong answer. I'll leave you to it.
luka
Well-known member
"When this experiment is conducted in the doctor-patient situation, the patient in many ways can go through the motions in a fashion which observes the letter but not the spirit... how easy it can be to win petty victories by carrying out instructions in a way that defies or nullifies their intent. To some extent most people have such a need for personal triumph over someone, and it is important to be on the lookout for this motive in doing these self-awareness experiments.
While certainly you may not respond in this particular way, you may somehow feel that we are challenging you to a tug of war, in which you must defend yourself against us. If so, you have the decisive advantage, for, so long as you feel that way, we cannot budge you.
What we wish to do is to ally ourselves with you and help you to budge yourself. Should you succeed to the end in demonstrating that you can do these experiments and still remain unmoved, over whom will you have won a victory?"
woops
is not like other people
corona is an obvious cover for the acceleration of these post-9/11 trends though, they can't just announce that meeting and touching other people is illegal can they, and 9/11 is not exactly conspiracy-free itself. i thought you were sci-fi fans @Mr. Tea @padraig (u.s.)
luka
Well-known member
"When this experiment is conducted in the doctor-patient situation, the patient in many ways can go through the motions in a fashion which observes the letter but not the spirit... how easy it can be to win petty victories by carrying out instructions in a way that defies or nullifies their intent. To some extent most people have such a need for personal triumph over someone, and it is important to be on the lookout for this motive in doing these self-awareness experiments.
While certainly you may not respond in this particular way, you may somehow feel that we are challenging you to a tug of war, in which you must defend yourself against us. If so, you have the decisive advantage, for, so long as you feel that way, we cannot budge you.
What we wish to do is to ally ourselves with you and help you to budge yourself. Should you succeed to the end in demonstrating that you can do these experiments and still remain unmoved, over whom will you have won a victory?"
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
that's a fair distinction, if not something I'm particularly interested in
obv I don't think you need shadowy cabals and inhuman forces when boring, mundane explanations do just as well (or actually, much better usually)
but I don't begrudge you guys your preferred dérive
you satisfied my original question - thanks - and now I will leave you guys to it
luka
Well-known member
one quick sketch of how paranoia operates and illuminates.
you-
X is my friend.
voice in your head-
oh, is he. you dont feel he maybe looks down on us?
you-
i guess he does. we're not socially sophisticated enough are we? that's why we don't get introduced to his other friends or go out in public
voice in your head-
you look down on him too dont you. you think hes a simpleton
you-
yes, i do. that's true
you-
X is my friend.
voice in your head-
oh, is he. you dont feel he maybe looks down on us?
you-
i guess he does. we're not socially sophisticated enough are we? that's why we don't get introduced to his other friends or go out in public
voice in your head-
you look down on him too dont you. you think hes a simpleton
you-
yes, i do. that's true
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Not particularly, no (the sci-fi part, I mean).
I think where a lot of the more out-there conspiracy theories fall down is that they get the question of cui bono? totally wrong, either in one direction or the other. As P has pointed out, sure, loads of people have benefited from the situation - companies that make PPE and ventilators, as an obvious example. But they don't run governments, and moreover, whatever money they've made is outweighed many times over by the general recession - think how many companies are going tits up, shedding employees and/or going cap-in-hand to governments for bailout loans.
I do think that the reason the pandemic has been as bad as it has in some countries is a direct result of governments and government agencies that should in theory exist for the benefit of the populace being hopelessly compromised by business interests - but again, that's the "boring but true" type of conspiracy "theory".
Then there's the mental leap from "Group X has benefited from this situation" to "Group X directly or indirectly orchestrated the situation in the first place", which is a big one. I might benefit from finding a tenner on the pavement, but it's a fallacy to assume that I somehow caused someone to drop it.
In the other direction, these theories often ignore the cui-bono aspect entirely. Such as the idea that governments love social distancing rules "because it's a way of controlling people". The assumption being that governments just love to control people for its own sake. Well, do they? Mostly they're concerned with maintaining power and, often, promoting the financial interests of individual government members and those of their families and associates. But what the government has done in this country isn't making them at all popular - quite the opposite, opinion polls show that a majority even of people who voted Tory last year think they're made a total fuck-up of it.
Likewise, the "Cultural Marxism" conspiracy theory posits that these alleged Cultural Marxists want to destroy Western civilization because they just do, or because they're evil. It's not an explanation, it's a statement of quasi-religious belief.
On the other hand, with conspiracy theories with some grounding reality, there is an answer to cui bono? - for example, who might have an actual reason for wanting to kill MLK and Malcolm X? Well, how long have you got?
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luka
Well-known member
well, there's no reason for you to get involved and i'd rather you left us alone than disrupted the class and introduced irrelevancies but if i were you i would carry out the exercise and see what happens and see where it takes you. shaking yourself out of settled habits is useful in itself.
I would say you don't take enough drugs Tea but actually you take loads or used to anyway.
I used to find conspiracies interesting, still do in a way but encountering the human cost makes me much less likely to give them time.
Also, it seems really out of date in a way like pre-millennium Robert Anton Wilson books or something. It's pretty close to the mainstream now and the cutting edge seems to me to be the open source people deconstructing this stuff in real time. But proving things - how boring. What a bunch of squares.
I used to find conspiracies interesting, still do in a way but encountering the human cost makes me much less likely to give them time.
Also, it seems really out of date in a way like pre-millennium Robert Anton Wilson books or something. It's pretty close to the mainstream now and the cutting edge seems to me to be the open source people deconstructing this stuff in real time. But proving things - how boring. What a bunch of squares.