Going it alone

[padraig (u.s.)]

credit isn't taken so much as given, in these things

lol that's certainly not accurate

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

wasnt she an actual lesbian?

she primarily had relationships with women, but bisexual is probably more accurate

tho as with many public figures of that era it's hard to disentangle how she felt comfortable presenting herself (i.e. maintaining some kind of ambiguity) vs what her actual private life was

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

he put it all together in this irresistibly consumable series of packages, knew how to hire talent, knew how to delegate, put the overall finish to the product etc

all of that I agree with

that's what we all agree on - his consummate talent for personnel management, administration, image crafting and presentation, etc

the melodies certainly are not "unique" - but you might get something from them you don't from anything else

all of that about the cry of longing and the chase and whatever is his talent for crafting a mythology - if you buy into it you do, and if you don't, you don't

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Bowie would have been a great advertising executive, without a doubt

creating the image that some product will sate a person's existential longing

 

[blissblogger]

he was asked to do a song for Absolute Beginners, was sent the script, and insisted on playing the advertising executive character with the fake American accent

 

[blissblogger]

it's a hideous song but the one good dance routine / stage set bit in Absolute Beginners

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

the quintessential Bowie cultural product

 

[IdleRich]

Hated that film... thought they must have mangled the book so I read that... hated it too.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

using an idea is implicitly "taking credit" for it is exactly the problem!

The Genius of Bowie

Queer Genius: David Bowie and Beyond

and etc. and I suppose it's an accident he wound up with a net worth close to a quarter billion dollars.

while the queer community he catapulted to stardom on lost its members to addiction, AIDS inadequate health care, poverty - you know, disenfranchisement

it's pretty wild to me the same dude who posits "art is an intervention in social structure" (the basic de facto view of art around here, btw) seems to not understand how privilege and cultural capital function

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

he was a savvy businessman, no doubt there

 

[sus]

The Genius of Bowie

Queer Genius: David Bowie and Beyond

and etc. and I suppose it's an accident he wound up with a net worth close to a quarter billion dollars.

while the queer community he catapulted to stardom on lost its members to addiction, AIDS inadequate health care, poverty - you know, disenfranchisement

it's pretty wild to me the same dude who posits "art is an intervention in social structure" (the basic de facto view of art around here, btw) seems to not understand how privilege and cultural capital function

exactly, credit is given

 

[sus]

Taking credit doesn't mean anything unless others dole it out. There are plenty of credit "claims" that just get dismissed as illegitimate.

I'm on your side if you're taking issue with a cultural response that deifies Bowie as innovator while ignoring his influences. I just think that's an issue on a different side of the cultural production chain.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

lol u think Bowie had no hand in that

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

was he not as we all acknowledge the master of self-mythology

 

[sus]

Likewise, I think it's a little weird (understandable, just not ideal) that singers become the encompassing identity of a huge team of people. But that's a "music industry problem" and not a Bowie problem—at least Bowie basically wrote his own melodies and lyrics, and had a huge hand in directing aesthetic/vibe, which isn't true of many singers who have been given (or "taken") credit for the cultural output of a large, talented team.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

it's a view of accreditation strangely isolated to art itself rather than art in its overall social context

 

[sus]

come now, you act like Bowie's musical output somehow caused or exacerbated AIDS, homophobia

clearly it didn't, and clearly you don't think it did

which means that the real problem here is the reception by the public, not anything Bowie did

I really have no personal connection with the guy; I only got into much of his music the last couple years, and don't really care about defending "him," per se—but I think dragging in the public's unfair treatment of certain marginalized groups isn't a problem he had any causal hand in. given his iconic reputation in gay communities, they clearly don't think so either. I'm not sure who you're trying to bat for here

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

if he catapults off the queer community to stardom then disavows it when it's convenient then he's culpable

like I said, he's just some asshole who climbed on people's backs to a life of luxury

which certainly ain't unique but it don't make him a hero either

 

[sus]

if he catapults off the queer community to stardom then disavows it when it's convenient then he's culpable

like I said, he's just some asshole who climbed on people's backs to a life of luxury

this was never about him as a person, it was always about the musical output, there's no reason to bring in one to talk about the other

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

what discussion have you been following