Going it alone

suspendedreason

Well-known member
follow @version's lead, he just deletes them. rewrites history.
I've noticed some very sneaky behavior with users editing their posts after-the-fact, especially when they get challenged, to make it look like their challenger is being unreasonable, or uncharitable

all present company excepted, of course! obviously!
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
yeah i dont hold with that sort of behaviour. just make another post. keep the historical record accurate.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
dichotomizing
I looked back and I see that's more what you were accusing me of i.e.

"the weird modernist/avant inclination, where the only worthwhile step is inventing something new, and talent-scouting/integration/deployment of innovations can only be interpreted as "appropriation" or "theft""

which is not something I believe - like I said it's a false dichotomy - or what I was talking about. and some other (not personally directed) stuff about the forum fancying itself sophisticated and cratedigger cred and clocking influences being gotcha moments that all just feels yunno like a strawman, since I don't think anyone here holds those views about innovation.

ofc I don't think it's bad that Bowie was influenced by Neu! or Philly soul or whatever. I think he makes an extremely subpar version of those things, but ppl can disagree. I do think it's very odd to separate out his cultural production from the public's reception of him as if he what he does is separate from that reception.
 

suspendedreason

Well-known member
yeah I think the question you bring up at the end of your post is a tough one

so much of our opinions are "reactionary" in the sense of being situated within some context of what we perceive as the larger opinion

so much of thinking someone is "bad" or "good" is, under the hood, about whether we think they're over- or underrated

Bourdieu talks about this with political positions a bit too, the way that a text "pushes" against current opinion, tries to "twist the stick in the other direction." the opinion doesn't exist in a vacuum but against the dominant ideology it's responding to
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
yeah I think the question you bring up at the end of your post is a tough one

so much of our opinions are "reactionary" in the sense of being situated within some context of what we perceive as the larger opinion

so much of thinking someone is "bad" or "good" is, under the hood, about whether we think they're over- or underrated

Bourdieu talks about this with political positions a bit too, the way that a text "pushes" against current opinion, tries to "twist the stick in the other direction." the opinion doesn't exist in a vacuum but against the dominant ideology it's responding to
we were explaining this to craner the other day wrt whigfield saturday night but he didnt understand it was too complex for him
 

version

Who loves ya, baby?
The stuff I delete's completely banal tbh. If there's a spelling mistake and it's been longer than three minutes then I might delete something because the edited message bothers me, makes it look messy. I'll also sometimes post an article as I'm reading it then get to the end and realise it's shit, get embarrassed and delete it too. Usually it's simply a case of saying something trite out of boredom then deleting it out of embarrassment.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
we are always trying to make corrections to the current configuration that is why one dissensus maxim is that the question is not so much is its good as is it needed?
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
on a lighter note what I think this thread needs is a good long analysis of Harry Styles' solo output vs. the greater output of One Direction
So his song is called Watermelon Sugar.... which I assume is named after In Watermelon Sugar, one of Brautigan's strangest books. Has this real nightmarish cuteness to it. Why is he naming his tune after that?
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
the opinion doesn't exist in a vacuum but against the dominant ideology it's responding to
this is related to that thread on erisology isn't it

well I said upthread you can't blame Bowie (or whoever) for passively benefiting from structural inequality

but equally you can't pretend their cultural production exists separate from that

it's both simple - in a cui bono way - and complicated in that there's no hard boundary separating influence from exploitation
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
who's done a good job in using their influences?
good question

a lot of the post-punk people did a good job of it I think, from avant-funk to the disco not disco crowd to etc

on a somewhat related note, Arthur Russell. Levan, bringing dub respectfully into the Moulton/Gibbons model of dance music.

tho also you'd probably have to clarify what "a good job in using their influences" means
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leo

Leo

Well-known member
good question

a lot of the post-punk people did a good job of it I think, from avant-funk to the disco not disco crowd to etc

on a somewhat related note, Arthur Russell. Levan, bringing dub respectfully into the Moulton/Gibbons model of dance music.

tho also you'd probably have to clarify what "a good job in using their influences" means
well, I guess anyone who did the opposite of bowie!

I think you get me, good call on post-punk. Part of that might have been that many in that genre were new to their instruments and not yet skilled enough to do it "properly". James Chance was influenced by James Brown but took it in a very different, non-commercial direction that could never be considered cashing in.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
we are always trying to make corrections to the current configuration that is why one dissensus maxim is that the question is not so much is its good as is it needed?
one illustration of this is how often i find myself embroiled in exactly the same argument at exactly the same time (sometimes one here and one on email, or both on email to different people or whatever) but im taking opposite sides depending on what i think that person needs to hear. it happens all the time its a really werid coincidence.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
i totally beleive what im saying in each instance theres nothing disengenous about it, im fully passsionately commited to both sides at once
 
Top