Life Under Biden.

constant escape

winter withered, warm
without some degree of hope, we end up wallowing in a festering pool of cynicism.
Not necessarily. The third route is a radically depersonalized psychic ontology, which is admirably withstanding trials thus far, all things considered.

That is, if one comes to grok that pathos is itself a function in a larger system, and that the horizons themselves aren't as bleak as pathos paints them as being, then persisting in a more or less pathically neutral capacity becomes more and more tenable. Also seems congruent with many of the central assertions of spiritual/mystical discourse throughout history, IE the bhagavad gita with Krisha explaining the difference between active and renunciative yogis, whatnot. The former embracing their roles in maya, despite being subject to currents and forces that threaten their balance, and the latter withdrawing inward to abstain from said currents.

edit: maybe "depersonalized" is not the proper word, in light of the bhagavad gita example, but I was writing spontaneously.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
That said, this is one of those situations where the absence of some position is perhaps indistinguishable from a superposition of all possible positions. That is, a net absence of pathos would be indistinguishable from a net balance of pathos. So the trick isn't to run away from these things, but to invite them into your inner sanctum, to feel them as extremely as possible, whatnot. Bit of a ramble here, but hopefully the point will spill through.
 

Leo

Well-known member
Not necessarily. The third route is a radically depersonalized psychic ontology, which is admirably withstanding trials thus far, all things considered.

That is, if one comes to grok that pathos is itself a function in a larger system, and that the horizons themselves aren't as bleak as pathos paints them as being, then persisting in a more or less pathically neutral capacity becomes more and more tenable. Also seems congruent with many of the central assertions of spiritual/mystical discourse throughout history, IE the bhagavad gita with Krisha explaining the difference between active and renunciative yogis, whatnot. The former embracing their roles in maya, despite being subject to currents and forces that threaten their balance, and the latter withdrawing inward to abstain from said currents.

edit: maybe "depersonalized" is not the proper word, in light of the bhagavad gita example, but I was writing spontaneously.
well have at it, then. I prefer to have some degree of hope.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
Oh well thats the thing, in such a state I'm better able to sustain hope. I just think of it in terms of faith. Faith in... say... the tendency of physical systems to arbitrate their own route of optimization, and then move down that route.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
And the task would be to hasten this optimization, by pouring incredible amounts of psychic energy/libido into it, the Passion of Saint So-and-so. In my case its just cerebral and theory-heavy, but the point is that there is always a line of flight reserved for hope, it just might take more than what most people are willing to pay for it. That is the sort of dichotomy I meant to pose, either give up hope or seriously overhaul your psychic ontology in order to preserve hope.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
"More than what most people are willing to pay for it" as in deeper reserves of psychic energy than many people consider possible, but as I said it seems possible for anyone to fastidiously cultivate an ever-wider vital harvest.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
That is, to be able to constantly expand the scope of your psychic capabilities, increase the magnitude of task you are willing to accept.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
I can look myself in the eyes and tell myself I can synthesize all of logos, express further into the inexpressible than perhaps any other human ever, etc. That kind of scale. What is important is the ability to persist toward such hubristic horizons. That is more important than actually accomplishing such things. @luka put it aptly elsewhere when he described it as perpetual psychic motion. A pre-emptive and thorough preclusion of demotivation, period. How? By grokking that constant progress is more rewarding that reaching some ostensible finish line.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
Which is why I describe such projects as psychotic. Because the above statement ought to register to the reader as psychotic.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
The craziest thing is that I don't seem nearly this crazy in person. Thats perhaps the biggest hurdle, digitally, when it comes to communicating this stuff. For all I know, I come across as a totally dysfunctional lunatic whose psychic prescriptions are to be avoided like the plague. Granted I still have a ways to go, but mind you these are dispatches from certain depths of metastable psychosis.

and @beiser I've only a thin understanding of clinical psychosis, for what that qualification entails, and I try to distance my usage conceptually by disclaimers such as "artificial" or "metastable", but I do think it is possible to drive yourself into psychic states that would qualify, clinically, as psychopathological.

All part of the larger framework-of-departure. What power does a clinical diagnosis have? Just how substantial are the assertions made by such and such expert? What are the forces compelling you to conform psychically? etc. A lot of overlap with my understanding of magic, as a sort of navigation and manipulation of psychic energy, the manner in which one's reality impresses upon them.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
And also part of my reasoning for using the word psychotic, even though conceptually its an apt word, is in the interest of preemptively appropriating the invalidating claims that could otherwise be used against all of this. "Are you serious? Thats psychotic." etc.

Its a frightening word, perhaps too frightening. Could just be a phase. But part of the reason I'm so willing to be transparent about all of this, is because it feels like a tenable position, ultimately. Needs some more troubleshooting, perhaps a perennial troubleshooting, which gets back to the notion of constant progress toward some horizon being more rewarding than the actual attainment of a goal.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
Admittedly I am not clued in at all to the opinions held by the community of those who are clinically diagnosed as psychotic. I tend to think of it as just a different neurochemical basis, a basis that often doesn't lend itself as well to the norms determined by other neurochemical bases.

And I can make many similar disclaimers about the use of schizo, conceptually. But when all is said and done, the clinical capacities of those words don't retroactively commander the etymology. But with that said, courtesy should be paid to those voices are, one way or another, barred from conversations that have consequences in their lives.

And part of this involves the kind of individual psycho-spiritual journey that involves embracing your own particular pathological elements. Which neatly compounds with the argument that younger generations, being more robustly exposed to denser information flows, will experience psychic conditions that would likely be diagnosed as increasingly pathological by the experts of yesterday.
 

beiser

Well-known member
I share the image because it’s funny to me—being psychotic by definition means an incapacity to determine your current state, right?
 
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constant escape

winter withered, warm
I tend to stick to definitions, and then try to ground what I know of clinical diagnoses onto those definitions. That said, not every condition/syndrome is named with sufficient semantic scrutiny.

As I understand it, someone who would be clinically diagnosed as psychotic would be diagnosed as such on the grounds that they cannot operate within some scientifically established parameters of psychological normality. As far as I can tell, this is often reducible to anomalous levels of this or that neurotransmitter, or perhaps of some absence of this or that inhibition mechanism.

One could make the argument - I'm not yet sure I would - that granting total authority to this or that scientific diagnosis would be a misstep, in that it renders absolute the pathologization of certain diagnosees, and that it cements understandings that ought to remain protean.
 
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