Locker room talk: rolling basketball thread

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
people like to talk about how ironic it is that american sport is so anti capitalist in this way
American major league professional sports are possibly the most naked example of the wild hypocrisy of extremely wealthy capitalists

which is the point, but it's hard to grasp the sheer scale if you don't follow American sports (and civic issues)

not only are they the only private businesses in the U.S. - afaik - legally allowed to ignore antitrust legislation and operate as cartels, but billionaires team owners are forever begging for/demanding vast sums of taxpayer $ to build new stadiums, with the threat of leaving for another city if they don't get it. athletes were essentially legal chattel until the 1970s (a baseball player named Curt Flood brought an important antitrust lawsuit against MLB in 1969, which he lost but which opened the eventual floodgates of free agency etc). and ofc at the same time, all the owners/leagues are forever appealing to the emotional resonance of a fanbase with its team, hard selling their players as roles models for children (gotta inculcate that next generation of sports merchandise consumers), and (esp MLB and NFL) wrapping themselves in patriotism, generally as shamelessly as possible.

it's not the only reason but a major reason why I'm not attached to any particular franchise as a fan - as players come and go, you're essentially rooting for a uniform and an ownership group
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
and that's all without getting into the absolute insanity of American college sports (really, just college football and men's basketball), where it took decades of agitation and lawsuits to allow players to profit off their likenesses - we're not even talking about salaries - when they generate massive profits for the schools they attend as nominal "amateurs". usually the people defending this system were/are major college athletic directors and high-ranking NCAA bureaucrats with 6-figure salaries directly dependent on the student-athletes they were vehemently arguing against being compensated in any way.

it's not always like that, but American society sometimes produces truly unique grotesque hypocrisies
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
if anything it could be trending up as smaller point guards are going out of vogue
to elaborate on this, smaller trend, such as it was, wasn't really about quickness or other traits you'd associate with being smaller, it was about skill

it's only quite recently - the last 10 years at most - that bigs with perimeter skills have become more common

there have always been extremely skilled bigs - Kevin McHale, Hakeem, or whoever - but their skills were post skills (that is, near the basket)

even Dirk was more of a shooter than anything else, tho he was iirc deadly passing out of double-teams etc

Kevin Durant is an outlier, but what made him special/still does was that he's 6'10" (with idk, a 1000 foot or whatever wing span) with the skills of a guard

Giannis obviously

and now basically everyone has to be skilled. so if everyone is skilled, you're always to select greater height (and length) when possible.

small guards are a defensive liability. some more than others - CP3 vs Trae Young, say - but even the better ones can't consistently switch onto skilled offensive players who are 8 inches taller and 50 pounds or whatever heavier.

big wings have always kind of split the difference, or for the last I guess 30+ years. MJ played as a nominal shooting guard but he was big enough to just call him a wing. LeBron, Kawhi, etc.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
the traditional positions went 1 thru 5: point guard, shooting guard, small forward, power forward, center

nominally, the point guard brought the ball up and initiated the offense, the 2 + 3 slashed/shot, the 4 + 5 scored inside/rebounded/protected rim

it's always been blurrier than that - "point forward" has been a concept at least since Toni Kukoc in the 90s, but you'll hear people saying it goes back to like Rick Barry in the 70s. Magic Johnson, a 6'9" point guard, famously played center in the finals of his rookie year after Kareem got hurt. LeBron ofc is the apotheosis of the point forward idea.

it was very rare for bigs to be able to shoot 3s until recently, now it's becoming if not expected then a major liability if they can't (even for a Rudy Gobert) and a huge advantage/marketable skill if they can
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
robert williams is the next evolution of what guys like tyson chandler/deandre jordan were for the previous generation. perfect role playing big whos best skills are the most useful a center can have in todays game.
I mean yeah if you can't shoot you'd better be able switch onto and defend smaller guys on the perimeter, as well as protect the rim

that's the difference between a useful modern role-player center and one ~10 years ago like Chandler or Jordan

you see how DeAndre Jordan has been basically unplayable for several years now despite only being 33
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
you're either a yankees fan or mets fan, white sox or cubs.
you can also be neutral but that is true. if you're a fan of one, you're not a fan of the other.

tho it's not bitter rivalry like Manchesters United and City or whatever (idk what Premier League fanbases hate each other)

partially bc they're in different leagues and so never in direct competition barring a World Series

you don't have to, but can absolutely pull hometown solidarity and root for the other team if they make it to the World Series

can't speak to NY, but in Chicago it's def just one more extension of the North/South side divide

North = more affluent, whiter (that is a generalization, but in general true), South = the opposite (tho White Sox play in Bridgeport, traditionally a working-class white enclave - it was Daley heartland, back when they ruled the city for yunno half a century)

which I neatly avoid by living on the west side, and also not caring about baseball at all
 
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luka

Well-known member
Talent as a natural resource to be mined and refined. US sports probably a bit behind in terms of trawling the globe for raw materials
 

linebaugh

Well-known member
I mean yeah if you can't shoot you'd better be able switch onto and defend smaller guys on the perimeter, as well as protect the rim

that's the difference between a useful modern role-player center and one ~10 years ago like Chandler or Jordan

you see how DeAndre Jordan has been basically unplayable for several years now despite only being 33
chandler and jordan were also different in that their main role was primary, strong side paint defense as much as it was weak side help where as robert williams splits strong side paint defense with horford and is a bit more of a free safety. And thats a bit like what you just said but its worth noting that celtics dont even deign to pretend that robert williams is the typical park in paint and dare guys to come at you player. its philosophically aligned with what chandler and jordan were though in that its a culling of the center position of every skill that isnt absolutely necessary for the current state of the game. the evolution being that now a player more in the tyson chandler mold via rudy Gobert has his utility questioned and that ability to be a solo paint protector could be becoming about as useful as a post game.
 

linebaugh

Well-known member
Talent as a natural resource to be mined and refined. US sports probably a bit behind in terms of trawling the globe for raw material
america does its own in house version of that via its massive impoverished zones.
 

Leo

Well-known member
you can also be neutral but that is true. if you're a fan of one, you're not a fan of the other.

tho it's not bitter rivalry like Manchesters United and City or whatever (idk what Premier League fanbases hate each other)

partially bc they're in different leagues and so never in direct competition barring a World Series

you don't have to, but can absolutely pull hometown solidarity and root for the other team if they make it to the World Series

can't speak to NY, but in Chicago it's def just one more extension of the North/South side divide

North = more affluent, whiter (that is a generalization, but in general true), South = the opposite (tho White Sox play in Bridgeport, traditionally a working-class white enclave - it was Daley heartland, back when they ruled the city for yunno half a century)

which I neatly avoid by living on the west side, and also not caring about baseball at all

In NY, Mets fans just pretend baseball season is over if the Mets are out of the playoffs and Yanks are in, and vice versa. They might not actively root against the other hometown team (although some do), they just pretend the playoffs doesn't exist if their teams aren't in it. There are still old-timers here who ignore both teams and root for the Dodgers!

@suspended, do Lakers and Clippers fans hate/tolerate/ignore each other? Saw Ice Cube (big Lakers fan) on ESPN today, when asked about the Clippers prospects for next year, he basically dismissed the entire topics with "whatever". Referred to them the Strippers.
 
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Leo

Well-known member
what's the deal with players having their little kids with them when doing post-game press interviews? Tatum even has his kid on the floor during pre-game warmups.
 

sus

Well-known member
In NY, Mets fans just pretend baseball season is over if the Mets are out of the playoffs and Yanks are in, and vice versa. They might not actively root against the other hometown team (although some do), they just pretend the playoffs doesn't exist if their teams aren't in it. There are still old-timers here who ignore both teams and root for the Dodgers!

@suspended, do Lakers and Clippers fans hate/tolerate/ignore each other? Saw Ice Cube (big Lakers fan) on ESPN today, when asked about the Clippers prospects for next year, he basically dismissed the entire topics with "whatever". Referred to them the Strippers.
Not sure!

San Luis Obispo is not a very competitive, sports town either. Very hippy dippy, casual fans etc. And we're a 4hr drive from both cities. So... hard to be so territorial
 

Leo

Well-known member
warriors were the better team but that was a tough one to lose, most equally matched game so far. curry is phenomenal.
 

Leo

Well-known member
maybe my prediction -- warriors in six or Celtics in seven -- will actually happen. I can totally see the warriors exploding out of the gate tonight, but the Celtics haven't lost two in a row so far.

regardless of what happens, can we just marvel again at this left-handed layup by brown? that's some MJ shit.

 
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