Locker room talk: rolling basketball thread

linebaugh

Well-known member
how do you think he'll do as a top dog? or I guess co-top dogs with Randle

he's undoubtedly a good player and I like his game but he's also 6'1" w/o top-level athleticism or a Donovan Mitchell-type giant wingspin

a Brunson/Randle/Barrett core is pretty uninspiring - like a 7 or 8 seed at best

but presumably the point is to establish a level of consistency and basic competence to be able to attract marquee player in a year or two
pretty much. maybe barrett takes a small leap and randle returns to form and they could float around the 5 seed but that seems like the ceiling. Brunson I think is gonna do well in whatever situation because his game is dependent on difficult shots to begin with, though hes not gonna have the same space to isolate like he did with the mavs. But if im the knicks Im pretty excited at the prospect of having a non sewage gutter of a team to sell to potential free agents. A top level guy surrounded by randle brunson and barrett could be a contender.
 

linebaugh

Well-known member
I wanna ask why is rebounds deemed such an important stat? I think it is anyhow.
its probably the least important of the major counting stats tbf (points, rebounds and assists). But if you cant rebound you give the other team extra possessions
 

Leo

Well-known member
Can also split hairs: track defensive rebounds (as Linebaugh said, they take away the opponents chance to score) and offensive rebounds (gives your team another chance to score).

In that context, rebounds might be the least important of the three but still pretty important.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Seems a bit like when playing 5-a-side and you have two v one.... and you miss and they score from the break... and you shoulda scored but actually they did so it's kinda two point swing.... maybe a rebound is kinda like that.
 

Leo

Well-known member
Can’t blame Kyrie’s latest controversy on mental health issues. He’s just a jackass who has once again fucked over his team with his nonsense. The Nets fired the wrong person.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Who is Kyrie? What's his latest controversy? How did he fuck over his team? Has he had mental health issues before? Who did they fire then? Why? What happens when someone is fired, do they become a free agent?

In fact, how do transfers work in basketball? In football transfers normally have two parts to them, suppose that Swindon Town wanted to buy Neymar from Paris Saint-Germain they would need to pay a sum of money to PSG so that they would release him from his contract with them and transfer the contract to them. If Swindon can pay an amount that is large enough for PSG to agree to release him and they agree to deal at this price then this is the headline figure that you see quoted when they say "The transfer fee of X was Y" although it can rise with extra sums payable if he plays a lot or scores a lot or wins a lot etc But basically that's the transfer fee. After that there is also the wages that the player agrees with his new club, if the transfer fee is agreed and the personal terms can also be worked out then the player changes clubs - it's also worth noting that a lot of players have a contract with a release clause which means that if a club meets that sum then the club has to allow the player to discuss personal terms with the enquiring club.

There are only certain times when you can buy and sell players, these are called the transfer windows, outside of those you are stuck with the team you're with. They can also lend players to other clubs, sometimes big clubs do that so that their second string or young players can stay match fit, sometimes the team borrowing a player plays their wages so it can also be useful to reduce the wage bill.

So, yeah, if Swindon Town came in for Neymar, they would look at his last transfer when PSG paid Barcelona 250m euros for his signature and then his wages were agreed at 70m euros per year for the next five years. Meaning that they basically had to lay out 600m euros to take him from Barcelona to PSG. Swindon would probably struggle a little to raise that sum so they would have to negotiate, they might point to how he's aged and his frequent injuries and try and beat the price down that way. If they were persuasive enough then maybe they could bring him to the County Ground.

But am I right that in American sports they don't pay a transfer fee to the club that has the player at the moment so it's much more about the wages? And are people locked to their club for a certain time? There must be something that stops another club just offering bigger wages and taking the players, is that part of the contracts or is it part of the rules of the league? One thing that happened about 25 years ago in football was the so-called Bosman ruling which changed it so that once a contract expired the a player's club had no hold on him, before they could still sell him and get a huge fee, but now if it runs out they can leave on a free, which I think is more like the American system. But most big players get sold before their contract expires, or else the contract is extended, it makes no business sense to buy players for a hundred million and then give them away for free so they try to avoid doing it wherever possible, although some players do let their contract run down and refuse to extend as part of a negotiating tactic at times. Certainly the Bosman ruling altered the balance of power between clubs and players, though maybe not as much as people first thought it would.
 
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padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
@IdleRich

Easy part first: American sports leagues don't have cash transfers like soccer does, basically bc they have salary caps that lokit what they can spend on players. Details vary by sport but there are 3 main ways a player can change teams

1) trade: this can involve cash but usually is trading players for other players and/or draft picks (unlike Europe where players are developed by team run academies, here they're drafted out of HS/college or internationally)

2) free agency: a player's contract ends up and they're free to sign with any team who wants them. This was not always the case but earlier players (see Curt Flood) fought for it. Sone major leagues have restricted and unrestricted forms and various other exceptions. Important sidenote: every major league has a rookie pay scale related to draft position, and the most valuable thing in all of sports is a star player still on a rookie contract (i.e. way under market value), which usually lasts for 4 years.

3) cut/waivers: a player is released by a team for performance and/or behavior reasons and can sign with any team that wants them. In some sports - particularly the NFL - a lot of the $ in a contract isn't guaranteed, so if a player gets cut the team isn't on the hook for it.

Salary cap management, esp as it relates to trades, is a complex thing. It might interest you as a former finance guy.
 

Leo

Well-known member
Kyrie is whole, thoroughly awful barrel of fish that I might try to tackle later

it kind of feels like he’s not so much upset about the anti-semetic accusations, he‘s objecting to people telling him what he can and can’t/should and shouldn’t say. He gets prickly about his right to say what he wants, regardless if what he says is right or wrong, ok or not.
 

linebaugh

Well-known member
@IdleRich the short of it is Kyrie a new age hippie third eye guy and thats led him towards saying things like the world is flat in the past and this time to Hotep/black isarleite stuff, which is complicated and I doubt even Kyrie understands it but hes in trouble because he shared a link to some documentary that included a fake hitler quote, but a fake hitler quote that made hitler look good and kinda justified the holocaust. And becuase Kyrie is a dumb guy hes refused to apologize for it
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Two questions... is he black? And... is he good? Cos the problem in football is if you play like Messi you can get away with bumming babies.
 

linebaugh

Well-known member
Two questions... is he black? And... is he good? Cos the problem in football is if you play like Messi you can get away with bumming babies.
He is black and he is good. Not messi good but an all star and one of the leagues most popular players because of his flashy playstyle. Thats part of why this is such a story- since hes good he keeps getting further oppurtunity to make ammends and he keeps doubling down. Its hilarious if not also sad.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
@IdleRich

Easy part first: American sports leagues don't have cash transfers like soccer does, basically bc they have salary caps that lokit what they can spend on players. Details vary by sport but there are 3 main ways a player can change teams

1) trade: this can involve cash but usually is trading players for other players and/or draft picks (unlike Europe where players are developed by team run academies, here they're drafted out of HS/college or internationally)

2) free agency: a player's contract ends up and they're free to sign with any team who wants them. This was not always the case but earlier players (see Curt Flood) fought for it. Sone major leagues have restricted and unrestricted forms and various other exceptions. Important sidenote: every major league has a rookie pay scale related to draft position, and the most valuable thing in all of sports is a star player still on a rookie contract (i.e. way under market value), which usually lasts for 4 years.

3) cut/waivers: a player is released by a team for performance and/or behavior reasons and can sign with any team that wants them. In some sports - particularly the NFL - a lot of the $ in a contract isn't guaranteed, so if a player gets cut the team isn't on the hook for it.

Salary cap management, esp as it relates to trades, is a complex thing. It might interest you as a former finance guy.

I think this is broadly as I thought, intricacies notwithstanding.

There is no equivalent of PSG wanting a player and just taking him cos they have bottomless pockets? If a player isn't cut or free you have to trade for hin?
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
He is black and he is good. Not messi good but an all star and one of the leagues most popular players because of his flashy playstyle. Thats part of why this is such a story- since hes good he keeps getting further oppurtunity to make ammends and he keeps doubling down. Its hilarious if not also sad.

I saw Chappelle on SNL talking about this... he said "You can't blame Kyrie for the holocaust, his black ass was nowhere near it, in fact he isn't even sure it happened."
 
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