"I'm trad, dad!"

suspended

Well-known member
Sure, I don't mean an agrarian society, I mean pastoralism as the romanticisation of agrarian life. That never goes away.
 

suspended

Well-known member
I wouldn't feel confident making any other claims about culture across the pond, I'm a total ignoramus, but I have read enough Leo Marx and Raymond Williams and William Wordsworth to stand my ground on that one.
 

WashYourHands

Well-known member
Agrarian romanticism v practical pastoral living here aren’t the same. The industrial revolution happened aeons ago. Only around 1% of the population work in agriculture and what does exist contributes less than 1% of gdp.

The pastoral imagination is another thing entirely and its relics definitely lurk below the collective conscious, but this is a very small island where the majority of forest land clearance expanded 3000-2500BC. That’s a long time ago.

Wealth does love a country pile here. Mostly aristocratic, industrial revolution and slave emancipation insurance fund based. Add a few oligarchs.
 

suspended

Well-known member

linebaugh

Well-known member
Started jacques barzun's from dawn to decadence earlier and an early argument is made that the west begins with the protestant revolution and as such the traditionalist motive is foundational- primitivism v. emancipation is the dialectic set up
 

thirdform

Well-known member
traditionalism itself is wholly modern. It wants to modernise tradition, and thereby wrench tradition from its context of landed property.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
why would I want to? There's a world of sonic thrills every Friday on my Spotify Release Radar, on Bandcamp and Youtube, and I have a hard enough time keeping up with that, never mind the rest of the music from the past ~30 years of dance and electronic stuff that I'm drawn to. Mozart is just some boring old white guy making music that doesn't say anything to me about my life and doesn't sound as lush or intricate or adventurous or whatever as 2021 can and could.

I don't like Mozart but the boring old white guy objection from white people is annoying, not gonna lie.

There's great intricate proto-industrial classical music, Bruckner for one.
Mozart's problem is that he is too sickly sweet. A fait he shares with Bach.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Don't fall into the trap of humble bragging, which is of course what most of the left does these days and why I burnt my vbridges with them, public school racists.

Better to decentre white people to mundane humans who made some good, some excellent, and some exicrable shit, just like everyone else.

And in facdt that is what all the free/experimental jazzers did.
 

boxedjoy

Well-known member
The boring old white guy objection is about recognising that these composers - the classical canon in general - the reason their works survive history is because of their race/class/gender privilege and the privilege of those who continue to insist on their importance. This music doesn't speak to me or connect with me or say anything thrilling to me. Like I say, we live in a world where voices who have fresh, insightful, new and important things to say can be heard easier than ever, in ways that are exciting and original thanks to technology and social changes. (Are there any female or queer classical composers and do they have work that reflects that and will I enjoy it? Serious question!)

I mean I'm being very glib and I can imagine "lol this is white" is annoying when you perceive someone saying it to be UK White, but sometimes you just wanna disrespect the canon and its notions of legitimacy. But I won't use it as a term again.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
"You’re always on about these driving-belts, you are always exploding about internal combustion. We’ve had machines here in England for a donkey’s years”
I love that patronising the continentals and he's spot on about it too.
 
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