constant escape

winter withered, warm
Science is fundamentally hermetic, with only certain narrow and heavy guarded gauntlets that administer the influx of information. We need to be familiar with the gauntlets, the inlets into the Empire of Fact.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
Just that with a surface reading, the fact psychedelia seemingly sits comfortably with fascism somewhat confuses claims of any neuro chemical moralistic links ie tripping makes you a better person
Oh I see, like fascism is almost definitively close-minded, bolstering this one people at the expense of others, etc, whereas psychedelics are supposed to neutralize such boundaries. Admittedly I'm not familiar with the science there, but gnostically that dichotomy makes sense, and this a psychedelic fascism would be paradoxical and likely out of the ordinary.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
Like I'd imagine you'd need to already be a thoroughgoing fascist in order to become a psychedelic fascist. Again probably some exceptions, but yeah I don't think its a real threat.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
The downside of gnosis, from the perspective of science, is that gnosis exhibits an overwillingness to go beyond the facts.

The downside of science, from the perspective of gnosis, is that science exhibits an overdetermination in moving even a step.
 

catalog

Well-known member
Does gnosis just mean the opposite of agnostic or is it something else? What would the opposite of agnostic be, that you are definitely either theist or atheist, but you believe it for definite one way or the other. So is that gnosis? That you are thiest or atheist.

Sorry, I know I could look it up and probably should but I like the lads to explain as well.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
And also science is just more expensive too, which is a huge constraint on would-be scientists. You need to play ball with bureaucrats and spend exorbitant amounts of money just to reach the point where you have the proper equipment at your disposal.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
Does gnosis just mean the opposite of agnostic or is it something else? What would the opposite of agnostic be, that you are definitely either theist or atheist, but you believe it for definite one way or the other. So is that gnosis? That you are thiest or atheist.

Sorry, I know I could look it up and probably should but I like the lads to explain as well.
I tend to think of gnosis and science as the yang and yin of knowledge, seeing as both words can translate to knowledge.

And yeah what @luka said, gnosis is immediate where science is mediated. The benefit of mediation here is that you have external references you can reliably defer to to support a thesis, and gnosis largely lacks this and is esoteric in this sense. Agnostic people can read facts, but generally can't operate comfortably within gnosis alone.

I don;t think there is a common word for lack of scientific knowledge, but ascient would be it. Omniscient, prescient, etc.
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
@shiels Toxicology is more my own plot. Apologies for the essay. There is a haribo in my ear.

That anyone can advocate for psychedelics and then limit their access to an elite ‘x, y or z‘ is problematic. There’s also the time honoured tradition of the acid casualty - who has an underlying likelihood of an adverse reaction, how you indentify them in advance and the ethics of risk-assessment/safeguarding. Exclusion could be construed as fascistic to some, entirely rational to others. How do you tease out the nuances between discretion and advocacy, plus overlaps?

We have 10’s of thousands of highly traumatised people related to Covid19, yet we have an establishment that can’t fund an institution like the NHS fully in peace time. A discrepancy. To get all these souls back on track would require a significant overhaul of mental health services as @DannyL could possibly testify. However, if you are a T or want to contribute to the recovery of others, the next few years could be the most noble of causes. The numbers could be up around 750000+patients, including fried NHS staff themselves. Imagine that as a line of people walking past you.

Instead of 12-18months of weekly face to face appointments and introducing compounds like anti-psychotic medication (where the drop out ratio will be high too), we could initiate a psychedelic guiding system where you test for coronavirus on arrival and follow the protocols for 3-5 sessions. Exorcise the demons, heal minds, allow people to regain their dignity and go back to life unshackled. This also incentivises people who were patients and have gained direct empathy of this healing process to then enter the field as practitioners (I can hear you groan @luka but don’t stress yet). Consolidate gains and create experiential hubs.

Problems - time. It will take a domestic evidence base for the govt to accept proof of efficacy and roll out a new NHS sector. It wouldn’t be enough to cite JH’s “Mystical Experience” paper, the same uni’s work on reduction of anxiety in palliative care patients, or the array of other research projects completed. However, we do have Ben Sessa, a man who deserves a great deal of respect for pushing these treatment pathways forward. We have David Nutt, a man whose work says it all and networks of practitioners who are already working off-grid in psychedelics, but it can be a cagey network.

Problems - we’re vaccinating by triaging, how do you triage when dealing with such a powerful mind manifesting set of compounds and a demographic that reflects our society’s experiences? Can you trust assessments of clients? What you get on paper is entirely different from getting to know a client personally, their cues, body language, the things they don’t say, how thorough and reliable are their “life maps”? The numbers games. A gaping trap.

Problems - institutionalised weaponisation (well weapon), which we all know has already been enacted decades ago by govt/military intelligence, so the atypical route from sacred to profane is nothing new.

Summary - If you were in this position as a patient or the friend or family of someone completely pickled by trauma, if this option were available and you knew there was a better chance at recovery, wouldn’t you prefer this option to be made available to as many people as possible? An almost impossible task,( @luka relax). Look at our current govt. Inept x infinity, but our therapy base and numbers of people looking at becoming recovery assets is always growing, aka the will is there. We have record numbers of benzodiazepine abusers, we had a mental health crisis before Covid, so my ethical position is to move for expanding access, for legislative relaxation on psychedelics, for fast-tracked expansion of training and to deliver a world class support service that enables healing as humanely as possible.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
So any optimal advancement of knowledge would require the mutual compliance between gnosis and science, and very few humans incarnate such mutual compliance. That said, it can be learned.

More to @catalog 's point, I think the question of theism is partially external to the question of gnosis. I think a lot of it depends on how you define these things, and I also think the optimal semantic arrangement is one that maximizes the robustness of as many concepts as possible, as represented by their words.

Like I have had an unwavering faith for the last year or so, like a sort of impenetrable membrane that is gnostically reinforced, but if someone asked me if I believe in God, I would defer to semantics. To me the question seems at once infantile and infinitely deep, but certain infinities dwarf others. Like someone can traffic infinitely through doubts regarding the existence of god, but I would argue that the premise itself sets up inconclusiveness as unsatisfactory, whereas not all premises negatively situate inconclusiveness.
 

catalog

Well-known member
Cheers boys. So would the dualities of conscious : subconscious map to
Science : Gnosis in this case.

I think probably yes?
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
Take @WashYourHands as an example. A healthy balance and interplay between science and gnosis. Informed by facts, but the ambition is not confined to them. Open ends, many of them, proliferating pathways. Seemingly comfortable with an infinitely proliferating network of consequences and inquiries, but thats just the impression I get from reading a post like that.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
Cheers boys. So would the dualities of conscious : subconscious map to
Science : Gnosis in this case.

I think probably yes?
If I get what you're getting at, then yeah I'd say there is a meaningful correlation there. I tend to frame these kind of correlations, and say archetypally informed knowledge, within gnosis. Arguably metaphor is the basis the gnosis, methodologically. Feeling out the abstract parallels between situations, relations, etc.

In this case, science is pin-downable where gnosis often isn't, and that is somewhat mirrord by the conscious/unconscious dichotomy, no?
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
Although scientism can be a sort of fanaticism, but I think the point got across. Maybe the other pole can be considered in terms of phychosis, the chaos extremity-perversion as opposed to the order extremity-perversion.
 
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