sus

Well-known member
the extreme end of non-consent is "interventionism"—intervention-on-behalf. you hate when yr mum does it, you hate when the US government does it to South American dictatorships. "it's for your own good!" "You'll thank me later" as the afghani town lies crumbling in ruin.

the extreme end of consent is two equally powerful entities with no identitarian desires to gain from one another; each feels comfortable freely adopting strategies of the other that they think works for them

almost all situations of influence are deep in the murky middle, so I think

the big problem psychedelic fascism has to figure out is: what does it mean to model (if you think you stumble upon A Way) without imposing that way?
 

sus

Well-known member
the alternative, that lets you out of having to ask this hard question, is simple "live and let live" libertarianism—this approach is a bit inconvenient, since others' behaviors affect your life as well, and also sorta impossible, since influence/mimesis happens in any situation of physical or sensory proximity, and also means that you let people sit in the dark instead when there's an easy light switch to flip on
 
There’s potential for tremendously positive change through psychedelics. I try and hold on to that factor with the palliative care options available publicly. Same with addiction and trauma. If you can envisage a situation where it’s integrated into the NHS, I don’t see anything inherently fascistic about that. It could be a game changer (the evidence base is there and long established). Why restrict to recreation? These compounds heal. Could an individual or group seize and coerce control through these compounds? Absolutely.

The jury is still out this side of the pond. Given we’re accumulating trauma from Covid deaths and overworked care teams by the thousand, why not integrate psychedelics and guides to heal so many damaged people? Complex area of inquiry, one that requires oversight which by its nature could be a corrupting influence.

This is all well underway and I’m glad

I dont think the substances themselves are very useful as a means of control, because they're 'non-specific amplifiers' with unpredictable effects, the suggestibility factor is maybe important. they can open you up, modulate the critical faculties, make you vulnerable and sensitive. when order is shaken up there's a very strong drive to re-establish, so the things that were exposed to in that window have a lot of influence
 

version

Well-known member
That DeLanda bit about the Nazis again,

FLOWING DOWN THE BLACK HOLE​

Deleuze and Guattari emphasize over and over that once you take the route of destratification, there’s an inherent danger that it will turn fantastic, that it will turn against itself. For them, certain aspects of Nazism were very destratified – for instance, Nazi tactics. That’s why they beat the shit out of everyone. And yet there was this smell of death there – the holocaust. They were destratifying themselves, but they bounced off the wall and restratifed themselves in a much more gross, evil, and resentful way, lacking joy in the worst way.

I just saw the Doors movie. Jim Morrison just tried to break on through to the other side too fast, thinking that all you had to do was take more and more acid. When you can’t break through anymore, when you bounce off it, you become resentful and turn to death. You won’t find that world of purity that you were expecting, and now you become resentful and turn against yourself, turn suicidal. Deleuze and Guattari call it a black hole. You enter the wrong attractor. The 60’s were extremely destratifying, and yet, because they thought they were going to achieve everything within the 60’s – and what they wanted was not achievable, period – fringes of this motion went into the wrong track. Then you have the Weathermen, completely pathetic terrorists blowing themselves up. That’s that impatience and resentment that Deleuze and Guattari warn about.
 

version

Well-known member
probably unrelated to what this thread is addressing, but the phrase "psychedelic fascism" reminded me of this 'source book on the rise of acid fascism in America'
index.php
Anyone read that CHAOS book on Manson from a couple years back? Thinking of picking up a copy.
 
theres parallel with conspiratorial thinking - loss of trust in state-control / institutions - dissolution of ego state, and then the vulnerability to new charismatic priests and daddies and theories that follows. we dont like to stay in the chaotic and ambiguous
 
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version

Well-known member
theres parallel with conspiratorial thinking - loss of trust in state-control / institutions - dissolution of ego state, and then the vulnerability to new charismatic priests and daddies and theories that follows. we dont like to stay in the chaotic and ambiguous
Fox did that, but now they're seen as part of the establishment by many of their viewers and Newsmax and OAN are doing the same to them.
 
what does it mean to model (if you think you stumble upon A Way) without imposing that way?
yeah. I suppose a naive would be that with psychedelics you have a tool that enables questioning, undermining, dissolving boundaries etc... but we see plenty of examples of that not being the case. not least sanctimonious and elitist crusties
 

catalog

Well-known member
I read that manson book, it's quite convincing in the central idea, that something weird was up with him getting away with so many things for so long. And he ties quite a bit of circumstantial evidence together. But there's so many odds and ends going on, it's such a monumental task, and there's no killer proof as such. Enjoyable read, like a decent bio.

Bomb culture is also good on this topic, of darkside 60s. Nuttall suggests Ian Brady contains the same spirit as a lot of rock stars but in a different environment.
 

version

Well-known member
I dont think the substances themselves are very useful as a means of control, because they're 'non-specific amplifiers' with unpredictable effects, the suggestibility factor is maybe important. they can open you up, modulate the critical faculties, make you vulnerable and sensitive. when order is shaken up there's a very strong drive to re-establish, so the things that were exposed to in that window have a lot of influence
Yeah, the psychedelic state itself doesn't strike me as conducive to fascism. The only aspects of it I can see working within the context of an actual trip are the idea of connecting to a mythic past and the emphasis on "blood and soil". The sense of "oneness" and connectedness could quite easily feed into both.

The more militaristic and authoritarian aspects go out the window.

 

luka

Well-known member
Clearly they are contributing to a particular strain of reactionary thinking though, feeding into it.
 

catalog

Well-known member
The thing he goes into a bit of detail about in that chaos book is the idea of the CIA using it to deprogramme and then reprogramme. The idea of building manchuria candidates. Removing peoples imprints and making new ones. That's the goal. So a misunderstandingvof what they were dealing with, which is why it all went pear shaped.
 
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