WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
The Mel Lyman plot is up there for sheer fuckedness. Boston, giving 1500mics to kids in a secure cellar if theyd 'been bad'.

If you weigh up how the US establishment has pumped its citizens full of different compounds, the macro and the micro correlate.

Ok there's an evil laugh bit. Now would be an interesting time to mass dose the population with an extra stress point. Paint it all over with a green nike swoosh.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
So does elitism just tend toward fascism then?

Nah, elitism tends to aristocracy and nobility. A concept unfamiliar to most Americans no doubt, why they have to call it fascism. But German and Italian fascism could be quite anti-elitist in certain respects, within the bounds of the national community of course, which is seen as holistic and can't possibly develop meaningful elite stratifications only in relation to 'alien outsiders.' Needless to say this is a wholly modern and not medieval concept.


Yeah not very comfortable with this development. These substances should be kept away from the lower types.

The most unfascist thing you could have said. I mean you just have to look at görıng

An important facet of the new, surrogate religion of nature that was developed as part of the attempt to dehumanize atheism (as discussed in the previous chapter), and which was embraced and further processed by fascism, was the mystical approach to nature, to plants and to wildlife. These attitudes also reflected a neo-romantic sensitivity and an aversion to the modern, massified, metropolis. A characteristic manifestation of this mystique was the National-Socialist cult of the forest, that facilitated an evocation of glorious episodes in the German past such as the victory of the legendary military leader Arminius (Hermann in modern German) over the Romans in the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest (Varusschlacht), which took place in 9 CE, in the northwestern part of modern Germany. This battle became a symbol of German nationalism especially during the romantic period, as stylized by writers such as Heinrich von Kleist. (On the forest as a symbol of German nationalism from the early 19th century to the end of the Second World War, see Zechner 2011.) The forest represented the vigorous and primeval ethos with which Nazism sought to replace the meek Christianity imposed on the German tribes, as well as a mysterious image of an organic, cohesive and combative collective, which is well rooted in the soil but manages nevertheless to expand and annex further territories: the image’s role was emotional, not logical. As in the forest, what seemed to count was not the individual warrior, the lonely tree, but the survival of the entire forest.

The Nazis pseudo-historically bestowed on the Germans the title of “forest people,” a people striking deep cultural roots into the forest soil from which it allegedly sprang forth. This mythical self-representation was grafted onto the regime’s racist ideology. The ability to care for the forest was perceived as a unique attribute of the Aryans, while Jews and Slavs were represented as desert and steppe peoples, respectively, hostile to the forest. So argued Hermann Göring, the prominent figure in the Nazi movement for the preservation of nature: “When we walk around in the forest, we see God’s magnificent creation […]. That distinguishes us from yonder people which deems itself chosen, yet will only calculate the market prize for a cubic meter of timber” (In Zechner 2011: 25).

These motifs were propagandistically employed in a full feature motion picture, Eternal Forest (1936), produced at the behest of Alfred Rosenberg (directed by Hanns Springer and Rolf von Sonjevski-Jamrowski). Its dramatic opening sentence already contains the racist, imperialist, social Darwinist and mystical messages of the movie: “Eternal forest—eternal people. The tree, it lives like you and me, it strives for space like you and me. […] People and forest persist for eternity.” And one of its final sentences focuses on the message of a national regeneration, to be achieved by eliminating the sick and the foreign: “Let’s weed out the racially alien and the sick. […] Join in to sing the new song of the time: ‘People and forest persist for eternity’” (In Zechner 2011: 23). The movie is also a prime example of the Nazi attempt to displace the humanistic legacy of Judaeo-Christianity in favor of a pantheism imbibed by the spirit of Nietzsche and Haeckel. As stated by Lee and Wilke (2005: 42) in their analysis of the film and its ideological context:

To a certain extent, National Socialist ideology stemmed from the pantheistic rationalism of Ernst Haeckel, zoologist, father of ecology, and founder of the Monist League. Haeckel’s monism, for Darré and other Nazis, provided an influential “over-arching belief system” because it legitimated the rejection of Christianity in favor of a monistic religion in which the nation was seen as the ultimate whole, worthy of worship and obligation.

This worship of nature can help to explain an aspect of National Socialism that may seem somewhat surprising in retrospect, and this is the way the Nazi regime was in many senses a “green” one, exhibiting special sensitivity to issues of protection and preservation of nature, restriction of animal suffering, an emphasis on natural and organic nutrition and so on and so forth. Under Nazism several pioneering laws were passed for the preservation of nature and preventing experimentation with animals, and the regime actively encouraged consumption of organic food, notably the promotion of whole wheat bread. In order to have bakeries produce especially such bread, the “Reich’s committee for whole wheat bread” (Reichsvollkornbrotausschuss) was established in 1939, and Dr. Leonhard Conti, head of the physicians’ union, declared: “The fight over whole wheat bread is the fight for the people’s health” (In Melzer 2003: 189). In January 1940, it is interesting to note, the same Conti, according to various testimonies, was involved in the euthanasia killings, through the use of lethal injections and gas chambers, undertaken in a “medical center” in Brandenburg, where their respective effects were compared. He himself, apparently, administered lethal injections to invalids. This experiment was of great importance for the continuation of the Nazi euthanasia project.22

Nazism also conducted a successful national campaign against smoking and encouraged researches that established for the first time the connection between smoking and lung cancer (Proctor 2000). Pioneering legislation protected the environment and was praised by activists for the preservation of nature, such as the June 1935 Reichsnaturschutzgesetz (Uekoetter 2006: 61).23 In August 1933, Nazi Germany also had the honor of passing the first law against vivisection, under Göring’s initiative. In a radio broadcast he explained the motives behind the law:

An absolute and permanent ban on vivisection is not only a necessary law to protect animals and show sympathy with their pain, but it is also a law for humanity itself. […] I have therefore announced the immediate prohibition of vivisection and made the practice a punishable offence in Prussia. Until such time as punishment is pronounced the culprit shall be lodged in a concentration camp.

(In Marquardt 1993: 124)24

Göring forbade the setting of traps for commercial purposes, limited hunting and set up regulations for horse shoeing and the boiling of lobsters. A fisherman cutting up a frog for use as bait was sent to a concentration camp (Marquardt 1993: 124–125). Göring’s anti-vivisection law survived in its original form for only three weeks, since it collided with the requirements of scientific and technological development that was vital, among other things, for speeding up rearmament (Uekoetter 2006: 55–56).

quoted from Ishay Landa - Fascism and the masses: The Revolt Against the Last Humans, 1848–1945.
 
Very difficult after doing psychedelics to not return to straight society with a glint in your eye and messianic air. A sense of "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe"

So in that sense it a sets up a hierarchy. An us and them. The elect and the paste

I struggle with this. Because it seems undeniable that you HAVE seen things that are important and potentially world changing and you have been initiated in to the great secret. But also, it's not much better than going on about yr gap year.

Doing drugs with humility - the eternal struggle

Definitely. this is what happens with the sanctimonious crusties and self appointed shamans and a big factor in psychedelic fascism

After DMT especially you can feel like you’re the hunter home from hill, telling your tales, cleansed, sharp mind, serene. I remember being in a Belfast bar with a mate a few years back a few hours after smoking. I was walking on air and maybe being a bit preachy and loose all “when are you going back to study, do it mate” and he said “when are you gonna fuck up?”
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
@luka - when @Matthew said

'the tricky thing is trying to work out what the hell it (lets call it "nature") wants one to do'

and I said that fascism can come from a malignant over-identification with nature, that Landa quote posted by @thirdform is exactly what I had in mind.
 

luka

Well-known member
he wasn't thinking about trees and flowers but as a inner order within the human aligning us and guiding us. do you see what i mean?
 

luka

Well-known member
nature as the objective thing within ourselves which we can use to guide our behaviour on a moment to moment basis.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
he wasn't thinking about trees and flowers but as a inner order within the human aligning us and guiding us. do you see what i mean?
Well I think Nature with a capital N, as the mystic (or ecofascist) uses it, is another word for god. I mean, yeah, I get what you mean, but I think it's also inextricable from the sense in which I'm using it.
 

luka

Well-known member
i disagree. i think its different and the distinction is important if you want to think clearly about this stuff.
 

luka

Well-known member
what i want to do is steer a course between two rocks
on the one hand, psychedelic fascism and on the other, rudderless drift
 

Woebot

Well-known member
That's certainly one reading yes. Another is that Nietzsche was lamenting God being killed and in essence a crypto-theist (see transvaluation etc.)
yes, no question - Nietzsche definitely believed in God! the very idea of disobeying God presumes he exists. the act of saying "God is dead" (not sure if Fred ever said that in fact?) assumes that once he was alive...

I think the best way of looking it at was that Nietzsche wanted to "ghost" god.

he said enough of the neo-platonics - enough of the vedic metaphysics - let's go the other way. let's turn our back on (@Mr. Tea ) Nature/God etc

-

i think @luka is essentially kicking a ball around. he's not advocating a Psychedelic Fascism per se - he's pointing out the solid concept that a higher order of reality issues fascistic demands on the individual.

that higher order is routinely exposed through the use of psychedelics BUT it's there anyway. my view (repeated ad nauseam) is that although they can be useful sometimes psychedelics create a distorted engagement with it - explicitly a reaction of messianic inflation - and from there we have the phenomenon of manson and the other acid fascists.
 

woops

is not like other people
i belieeeeeeeeve that nietzsche put his idea that god is dead, we have killed him into the mouth of his madman/prophet character in also spracht. obvious authorial stand-in
 

catalog

Well-known member
This shamanism book I'm reading at the moment says it's about ego disturbance. If you summon a self (god) that inflates your ego and makes you feel good, then it's not a real meeting with something more than you, it's more likely ego projection.

If you meet something that disturbs you with what it says, then it's real.
 

Woebot

Well-known member
im certainly not advocating psychedelic fascism! dear god!
no i know - but i thought people might think that because you're pitching it against mark fisher's acid communism - which was something he advocated. just clearing it up for the simple people 🤣
 

luka

Well-known member
what the world has recently remembered is that the way to avoid rudderless drift and 'depressive hedonia' or an uncritical adoption of outwardly imposed social values and goals is to make contact with and subordinate yourself to what matthew has called nature what more commonly is called god but goes by a million different names.

which is great. but also opens up some familair dangers and temptations. ive just nicked the terms psychedelic fascism for the thread title but im using it very loosely as a bag to stuff all these dangers and temptations into
 

Woebot

Well-known member
i belieeeeeeeeve that nietzsche put his idea that god is dead, we have killed him into the mouth of his madman/prophet character in also spracht. obvious authorial stand-in
thanks @woops i'm glad he said it. it's his classic quote innit.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
no i know - but i thought people might think that because you're pitching it against mark fisher's acid communism - which was something he advocated. just clearing it up for the simple people 🤣
Clearly what's needed is to avoid both extremes and plot a course for some nice sensible acid centrism.
 
Top