Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
As opposed to someone who does no research, to whom all of this amounts to little more than magic internet money.
IE such a person is less positioned to ascertain whether the technology itself can find real world applications (IE not just derivative applications which take blockchain for granted), enough to sustain the growth of the crypto market in general, or a given asset in particular.

Of course, whether or not we'll see enough of these value-supporting applications is still a matter of belief, with a gradual trickle in of precedent. But this belief is informed by one's understanding of the technology, and most people investing in crypto don't care enough about the technology to actually understand it, hence they they are ultimately more beholden to hype and panic - which isn't to say I go unaffected by these things.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
And the Matt Damon crypto.com ads really don't help the situation, in my opinion. They just fuel fomo and don't encourage any education whatsoever, because reading about technical stuff is boring and being rich next week is cool.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
So ultimately I'd say the blame is to be split between the system itself, and the people who make their own decisions within the parameters of the system.

IE if people weren't so alienated from the current status quo, they arguably wouldn't be so desperate as to render themselves vulnerable to scams.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
I've made my share of unscrupulous decisions in crypto, and I'm easily in the 99th percentile of informedness as far as crypto investors go. Thankfully it only resulted in around $300 worth of hard losses, whereas my current depreciated position (as well as my prior depreciated positions) constitutes more of a soft loss.

But those hard losses could have been way more, when I think about all the exploits and cataclysms I've happened to avoid.
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
Yeah, and the alternative is arguably even worse. Restricting investing to "accredited investors" IE people with high net worths, and those who pass certain exams (the latter of which being reasonable, in my opinion).

So either the small guys are free to make their own investing decisions, and are simply more vulnerable, or else they are restricted from entering capital markets.
I mean, I don't see that it's a particularly bad thing that small guys be restricted from entering capital markets, or at least restricted in how they enter capital markets. It's like being restricted from entering the shark tank.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
I only really use Twitter to swap DMs with friends these days…but am sure lots of anarcho types I know (or used to know) have been making threads laughing their tits off about this. I dunno…you’re supposed to be sensible and not fall for this ponzi scheme…and who in their right mind would buy FUNNY INTERNET MONEY?? – but then implicitly trust in a system where the average UK house price is around £275k (a steal in London or Brighton) and people lose their jobs while the boss's thick inbred brats demand paid work experience.

Anyway, some kids got rich with £50 on their phones at the right time. Good luck to them, I reckon. Anyway, Stan...what’s your take on QNT? I still want to buy a castle.
Haha I actually know nothing about QNT anyway
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
I mean, I don't see that it's a particularly bad thing that small guys be restricted from entering capital markets, or at least restricted in how they enter capital markets. It's like being restricted from entering the shark tank.
Yeah I think there is reason there, in a paternalist way.

But even before we get to capital markets, passive income isn't really a thing for the small guys, outside of crypto. IE I'd need around $50,000 minimum to earn 0.03% in a retail bank savings account, from what I gather. Probably some exceptions, where you can have a few hundred dollars to invest in something with some ongoing yield.

But yeah I do think the investor accreditation rules do effectively protect the smaller guys, by preventing them from incurring risks in a game that is not stacked in their favor.
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
But even before we get to capital markets, passive income isn't really a thing for the small guys, outside of crypto. IE I'd need around $50,000 minimum to earn 0.03% in a retail bank savings account, from what I gather. Probably some exceptions, where you can have a few hundred dollars to invest in something with some ongoing yield.

Really? There's a load of ways that I can invest in the UK - ISAs, investment funds etc. The difference is that I'm handing off the micro of where my money goes to someone who theoretically knows what they're doing, and paying them some sort of commission to do it. I'm entirely willing to believe that on average, someone who's been doing this stuff day in day out for a decade is going to outperform a hobbyist by more than the width of a commission.

I think this is what gets me about the individual investment thing, to be honest. It's basically amateurs playing poker against professionals, which is fine if they're basically viewing it as a fun way to lose money, but people are being sold on the idea that if they've subscribed to a bunch of newsletters and watched a load of videos then they'll know a bunch of tricks that'll let them reliably skin the professionals and get rich off it.
 
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Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
Yeah I agree re: retail traders. There's not only the expertise asymmetry, but also the institutional guys have a ton of capital to move markets, and super advanced tools to survey the landscape better then even the best of retail savants - and all of that is before we consider insider information. I just simply advise against crypto trading, and I just take a more passive, long-term, passive-income approach.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
Re investment opportunities, I don't know what kind of account minimums are required for the non-crypto retail investing platforms or brokerages here.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Yeah I agree re: retail traders. There's not only the expertise asymmetry, but also the institutional guys have a ton of capital to move markets, and super advanced tools to survey the landscape better then even the best of retail savants - and all of that is before we consider insider information. I just simply advise against crypto trading, and I just take a more passive, long-term, passive-income approach.
And of course transaction fees matter if you're buying 500 shares but vanish if you buy 50,000
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
Well if you think the higher-quality crypto is a scam, check out the tiktok stuff the likes of this guy invests in.
 

Leo

Well-known member
is any of this a surprise? why would anyone expect people who run these firms to be any more honorable or less corrupt than people in normie finance?
 
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