being mean and rude because someone is kind and polite

sufi

lala
Back on matt's original post tho. I reckon it's better just to be nice to people and deal with the chance that they'll sometimes fuck you over. Of course they do (although they'd probably fuck you over if you weren't nice too). But on balance it's better to err that way that risk being not-nice to someone who's actually alright, I reckon.

Vaguely similar thing - always give spare change to some one who comes up to saying they need it. Of course some of them are blagging but better just to accept that as part of the deal for helping people who do really need it.

Such is my philosophy. Namaste, lads. Namaste.
yeah those are good policies.
anyone who is willing to debase themselves by begging for pennies is clearly having a bad time - & if you can't see how humiliating yourself like that is not an easy option, then you maybe lack compassion
wasalaam alaikum
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
"Dissensus, contrary to its name, has become like Cheers with marijuana instead of beer - you pop in, say something of no consequence or interest to anyone, don't even listen to what other people are saying, have your basic story about the world reinforced, blearily feel good about yourself, then wander out again"

Er, guilty m'lud
God, I'd forgotten how militantly anti-weed k-punk was.
 

version

Well-known member
 

catalog

Well-known member
Funny how luke turned bants/trolling into a dogmatic position.

I don't actually smoke dope anymore but prolonged exposure has probably completely changed my brain permanently
 

catalog

Well-known member
I'm one of those people who hates any kind of confrontation so eg with people at work, if I get challenged, I will try to appease them and say its my fault.

But over lockdown, someone sent me a nasty email, completely out of order, so I challenged then on it, in fact reported to our boss.

And we now get on much better.

So it's better for everyone if you lay someone out if they get on your tits, is the moral.
 

version

Well-known member
I'm one of those people who hates any kind of confrontation so eg with people at work, if I get challenged, I will try to appease them and say its my fault.

But over lockdown, someone sent me a nasty email, completely out of order, so I challenged then on it, in fact reported to our boss.

And we now get on much better.

So it's better for everyone if you lay someone out if they get on your tits, is the moral.
Really depends on the person. My sister works with a woman the boss is terrified of because she's the kind of person who'll go out of their way to destroy people if they stand up to her. Apparently she had issues with her last employer and went around spreading gossip and turning everyone against them, so my sister's boss just lets her do what she wants out of fear she'll do the same to her and try to ruin her business.
 

boxedjoy

Well-known member
what a terrible boss. Her job is to control her team and who is on it and how they work and if she can't do that then... don't be in that job, surely?
 

version

Well-known member
I think that's easier said than done. How do you control someone who's willing to go a lot further than you are?
 

boxedjoy

Well-known member
put them on a performance improvement plan and tell them the reasons why - soft skills are just as crucial and if you're not going to "play nice" you're not welcome on the team - and then let them go when it doesn't work out. They'll badmouth the organisation but realistically, in these situations, it always sounds like the bitter lover who claims their ex is "crazy" - these people are always so transparent.
 

version

Well-known member
This isn't a corporate thing. It's a small shop with a handful of staff and which the owner lives above. And yeah, she does sound like a poor boss tbh, but it's her livelihood so she can't get out of it now.

I think she should probably just fire her and call the police if she starts making trouble, but it doesn't look like she's going to go that route.
 

Leo

Well-known member
I think that's easier said than done. How do you control someone who's willing to go a lot further than you are?

everyone is replaceable, regardless of how important or threatening they seem. people like that employee only act that way because they get away with it (aside from potential psychological issues as well). the boss is entirely within her rights to sit the employee down, explain the situation, give them an opportunity to change and then fire the worker if she doesn't.

if the boss doesn't do this, she'll just end up losing good employees who get sick of it and leave.
 

version

Well-known member
Totally, but it isn't a question of whether or not you're within your rights with someone like that. They aren't reasonable.

I imagine they'll just muddle along until the boss eventually snaps and fires her like she should have done ages ago.
 

boxedjoy

Well-known member
The good thing about it is: someone who has shown themselves to be an unreasonable person is someone you dont have to use logic on. They made the rules that your friend gets to play by.

It's a really bad message to send to the rest of her team too. If X can get away with being an obnoxious horror then I'll have no problems turning up ten mins late, etc.
 

Leo

Well-known member
Totally, but it isn't a question of whether or not you're within your rights with someone like that. They aren't reasonable.

Yeah, but so what? Being unreasonable is meaningless, why is it an obstacle to managing employees? She's unreasonable, who cares? boxed nailed it.
 

version

Well-known member
Because you can't physically force them to do what you're asking, so you have to rely on them being reasonable and complying?

If they're unreasonable and refuse then your only options are to drop it or fire them and if they're someone like the person we're discussing then firing them might cause greater problems, like being harassed or taken to court.
 

Leo

Well-known member
I guess, but I just don't see it that way. A credible performance improvement plan would cover an employer's legal liability, and police can take care of harassment. And odds are heavily weighed that it would never come to that, people like the worker do it because they get away with it, Once someone stands up to them, or they are faced with the reality of a restraining order to stay away from the business and other workers, the aggressive bluster disappears.
 

version

Well-known member
Probably, but we're talking about a small, relatively informal business with like two staff members and being run out of someone's home who's already dealing with anxiety and health issues. It's easy to say suggest legal action, getting the police involved and whatnot, but I dunno that the person in question could cope with the extra stress and costs.

I think she'll eventually have to fire her, but we'll see.
 
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Leo

Well-known member
sounds similar to being trapped in an abusive relationship. from the outside, it's easy for us to say people should stand up to the aggressor or just leave, but not always so easy to do.
 

boxedjoy

Well-known member
if you tell a person you won't be paying them any more they'll suddenly become a lot more compliant. It's really easy to frame it in work terms: I need you to foster a productive and peaceful working environment, being disagreeable is not part of that, so are you going to commit to behaving or shall we agree this isn't going to work out? I've had this conversation before (I actually made the person sign an agreement too) and it worked because all I had to do afterwards was point out that they knew and understood what was expected of them.
 

boxedjoy

Well-known member
I'm quite heartless around work stuff though - I think it's really important to frame work as "you sell your labour for money" and it's up to you what the terms and conditions of that trade are. My threshold for dealing with difficult people is very low, life is too short to spend 40 hrs a week around people who can't manage to get on with each other at a basic level.
 
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