Questions about Exegesis and Linguistic Infinity

[other_life]

it would be dishonest of me to give a full throated defense of 'Tradition' a la Congar or the Habadniks because i live in some sense outside of it but i don't think it's something to be trifled with, either. it's something i am in the process of making peace with in spite of how deeply embedded i am in the secular - because i am convinced of the authority of its claims on me, in terms of the ethics i must live by and my connection to a deeper chain in history, a familial belonging to the line of prophets that is 'the Israel of God'.
i take it therefore as axiomatic that all the words of Torah are revealed words and words in which is a deep, deep imprint of their Maker and Revealer. that they do not just refer to reality but participate in that reality and allow us to participate likewise. [or, in another way: the 'reality' of 'text' is not merely extratextual but rather makes entries into text such that participation in reality (sacramental reality) is (not exclusively, but really) text-immanent]
this is a very long way of saying that i take the sacramental view of scripture as a given and think that saying 'it's a way of keeping autists busy' is trifling/belongs more in the kantbot thread than it does here

 

[other_life]

it is of note on these days of awe that in all the things secular Spirituality has borrowed from religion-as-such it has for the most part jettisoned repentance and contrition and consigned their engine to the pathologised 'self hatred' box

 

[other_life]

'YOTZER AUR W'BOREH CHOSHEKH' - "Fashioning light and creating darkness." (Isaiah 45:7)

MAH 'CHOSHEKH'? - Mi zeh m'choshikh etzah, b'm'lin b'li-Da'as?: "Who is this that darkens counsel, in words without knowledge?" (Job 38:2)
And further? - Asher chasakhti l'et-tzir, l'yom qrav w'milchama: "[The storehouse of snow], which I withhold for a time of strife, for a day of battle and war?" (Job 38:23)

W'KACHASH? - Wa't'kachash Sarah, l'emor ' lo 'tzachaqti' - "And Sarah denied it, saying 'I did not laugh!'" (Genesis 18:15)

W'SHAKACH? - Ha'ti'sh'kach ishah, 'ulah me'rachem Ben-Bit'nah - gam eleh ti'sh'kach'nah, w'Anokhi lo e'sh'kach'ekha - "Does a woman forget her babe, have no mercy on the child of her womb? Though these forget, I will not forget you." (Isaiah 49:15)

FROM THIS WE KNOW:
That to darken is to withhold, to withhold is to deny, and to deny is to forget.

 

[other_life]

drash breishis 1 oct.pdf

hostb.org

for whoever wants it.
sorry for being such a heel.

 

[luka]

suspended reason is a jewish autistic btw

 

[luka]

you have to bear that in mind when considering his comments on autistic jews imo

 

[other_life]

they're correct comments, is the thing. i just wanted to be Adversarial

 

[other_life]

i will say that i do have a generalised Dissatisfaction the way Bible is used in a completely literary-critical way with no respect for the personality it evinces or treasure of an extra-textual value it hides/points out to, or a third-hand idea of Kabbalah is used as an accessory with no reference to its foundational root (which is close readings of the Bible that take the truth claims attached to it from tradition and tries to draw those out as far as possible)

 

[other_life]

you end up -generating poetry-, and even -walking with more confidence and speaking with more eloquence- in the real world, if you take this other tack on Revelation, even as a 'secular', and feel like it is -yours- (personally, ancestrally) to open in this way. it gets you a lot farther than looking at a static picture of the sefirot and never even inquiring into how they got their names, or why they have -multiple- names.

 

[other_life]

i don't know how i need to translate myself into plain english to communicate that fact or why i want dissensus to participate in it, i thought that was what -your- project with poetry in particular was all about?

 

[luka]

i will say that i do have a generalised Dissatisfaction the way Bible is used in a completely literary-critical way with no respect for the personality it evinces or treasure of an extra-textual value it hides/points out to, or a third-hand idea of Kabbalah is used as an accessory with no reference to its foundational root (which is close readings of the Bible that take the truth claims attached to it from tradition and tries to draw those out as far as possible)

i have a generalised disatisfaction with the way literature per se is used in a completely literary-critical way with no respect for the personality it evinces or treasure of an extra-textual value it hides/points out to but of course this means i dont consider the bible unique in terms of its inspiration and validity

 

[luka]

i don't know how i need to translate myself into plain english to communicate that fact or why i want dissensus to participate in it, i thought that was what -your- project with poetry in particular was all about?

it is, youre absolutely right

 

[other_life]

i feel like me considering the bible unique is a way to prevent myself from getting overwhelmed and distracted by the entire Sweep of things + a way to guarantee that i'm actually looking closely at something and not just gathering lore fragments [and this is precisely the original prompt of the thread - how do we grapple finitely with a language that is infinite?]

 

[luka]

well this is is it isnt it. very obviously, the bible repays a 'saturation job' arguably more so than any other book. but then on the other hand not all of us are going to do that, for various reasons, laziness, stupidity, obstinacy being the main ones.

 

[luka]

i absolutely accept the frame you are using and the methods, i beleive in them without any qualm or question.

 

[other_life]

i think Bible and Kabbalah have historical weight behind them as far as encouraging literary creativity via expansion on a set text/being taken as models for emulation and also for successfully insisting on their own extra-textual value ('faith without works is dead' 'we shall do and we shall hear' - 'you must do it first before it can be interpreted for you' 'it is good to study, but much better to study and practice')
it would absolutely be eurocentric to claim that in this they are Revealed and Unique, but as english speakers it is what we have to hand, its legacy is going to confront us in any direction we can turn in our native languages. it's that or the Greeks, and i just personally have more resonance with the direction Midrash developed in than i do the directions Philosophy has gone.
if we can successfully -do this- with Torah, and integrate it into ourselves, so that -we- are saturated with its root-words at the level of our nerves, think in its grammar at every turn and with every action, see for ourselves the resonances and conjunctions it points away from itself towards, then nature may sooner be an open book to us. who knows what we would be able to do?

 

[other_life]

well this is is it isnt it. very obviously, the bible repays a 'saturation job' arguably more so than any other book. but then on the other hand not all of us are going to do that, for various reasons, laziness, stupidity, obstinacy being the main ones.

BE STIFF-NECKED NO MORE

 

[luka]

also you have to understand that i am not personaly autistic so there is a limit to the amount of information i can absorb and a limit to how much i can concentrate on detail.

 

[luka]

In 1955, Charles Olson wrote two letters to the young poet Ed Dorn that he then revised as A Bibliography on America for Ed Dorn. At one point, Olson argued:


PRIMARY DOCUMENTS. And to hook on here is a lifetime of assiduity. Best thing to do is to dig one thing or place or man until you yourself know more abt that than is possible to any other man. It doesn’t matter whether it’s Barbed Wire or Pemmican or Paterson or Iowa. But exhaust it. Saturate it. Beat it.


And then U KNOW everything else very fast: one saturation job (it might take 14 years). And you’re in, forever.

 

[other_life]

who will go with me into that good land this year?
the portion dealing with Noah begins this coming sunday and rolls over to the next on next friday night/saturday morning. that means that the boat for any of you to participate is leaving.