Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
yeah. im not very good at it. ive given up now. i never really made any perceptible improvement. when i used to smoke weed i considered that meditation. smoke your first one in the morning and wait for that shift to come over you and the world. suddenly the birds start singing and the clouds start moving across the sky.
Weed is similar for me in that capacity, but I've been off it for 2-3 weeks now, made the transition via meditation as a consciousness altering process. Last two weeks I haven't been doing either, but I am able to go for 30-60 min sukhasana (easy pose) with or without any sonic stimulation.

Maybe it will work if you play some kind of ambient music, nothing that promotes too much fixation on feelings and/or ideas.
 

luka

Well-known member
maybe. if my next mood is 'health kick' then i'll incorporate it into my routine again. not that i have a routine. but i'll make one.
 

luka

Well-known member
but also i guess my writing operates in a somewhat similar way in that its mostly characterised by silence and alert listening and then accessing that drift and movement
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
But I do think pushing through the restlessness can be considered part of the process, in the case of sitting and doing nothing.

Yeah I can see where your writing would function similarly here.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
Sieving away other considerations and loci of attention, boiling it down to poiesis.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Meditation is now pretty much understood as a poor man's drug experience isn't it? You can use it to get similar but less profound effects much more slowly - albeit more cheaply.

You do need to consider the health effects though of course. I've known a few people who have found meditation extremely stressful and quite damaging to their mental state. Ultimately it may be better to play it safe and actually spend the money to get properly fucked up instead of doing the cheapskate version - your mental world is too important to skimp on and cutting corners by using the old-fashiobed (obsolete?) method is ultimately a false economy.

Sure, when it was the only option it made sense, but, in the thousands of years since the invention of meditation we have, as you might expect, made a huge number of improvements which are too good to ignore.

That said, you do need to be a bit careful with valium; I don't know how addictive it is - ie how much and how often you need to take it to get hooked - but I do know that once you are addicted it's an absolute motherfucker to come off, the problem being that, unlike with heroin, a valium withdrawal can kill you (as can alcohol withdrawal and, some sources suggest, opium withdrawn).
 

luka

Well-known member
im keeping well away from the valium. seen too many people fall afoul of it. yo cant have a drug that just feels nice. its absurd. patently dangerous.
 

version

Well-known member
im keeping well away from the valium. seen too many people fall afoul of it. yo cant have a drug that just feels nice. its absurd. patently dangerous.
Yeah, it's frighteningly nice. It's like taking a pill that takes you straight to the feeling of having had a couple of pints without the sloppiness of actually drinking anything.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
Meditation is now pretty much understood as a poor man's drug experience isn't it? You can use it to get similar but less profound effects much more slowly - albeit more cheaply.

You do need to consider the health effects though of course. I've known a few people who have found meditation extremely stressful and quite damaging to their mental state. Ultimately it may be better to play it safe and actually spend the money to get properly fucked up instead of doing the cheapskate version - your mental world is too important to skimp on and cutting corners by using the old-fashiobed (obsolete?) method is ultimately a false economy.

Sure, when it was the only option it made sense, but, in the thousands of years since the invention of meditation we have, as you might expect, made a huge number of improvements which are too good to ignore.

That said, you do need to be a bit careful with valium; I don't know how addictive it is - ie how much and how often you need to take it to get hooked - but I do know that once you are addicted it's an absolute motherfucker to come off, the problem being that, unlike with heroin, a valium withdrawal can kill you (as can alcohol withdrawal and, some sources suggest, opium withdrawn).
To me meditation isn't strictly about enjoying an altered state of consciousness, but primarily about securing an equanimous mental state.

I brought it up as a potential offramp from constant weed smoking, because it can function as a means to enjoy altered states of consciousness. It would also be a much more intrinsic and enduring means than substance usage, a means that can be employed whenever, wherever, freely.

But again for me its not just about getting experiential kicks. Skydiving on acid was about experiential kicks, but meditating is profoundly more important, in my eyes. And again my primary meditating practice, should it be called that, is more of a waking seeing-through of experience, rather than an inactive/idle practice, which I have much less experience with, i.e. sukhasana.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
how was skydiving on acid?
Actually, in hindsight, not that interesting compared to how my mental state has developed since, without psychedelics. But at the moment it was surreal, naturally. We could see the curve of the horizon, jumping from a height of around 14,000 feet.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
I had previously read online a report from someone else who had done this, and he said it was as if the trees and the grass were embracing him as he landed in the field. Can't say I had that sensation, but I don't remember if I stuck the landing or tumbled. Strapped to the instructor, too.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
But yeah my sober work since then has been much more meaningful than any of the experiences I had with psychedelics. That is why I am suggesting Luka figure out a practice, one that is ultimately independent of substances, i.e. exogenous means.
 

version

Well-known member
But yeah my sober work since then has been much more meaningful than any of the experiences I had with psychedelics. That is why I am suggesting Luka figure out a practice, one that is ultimately independent of substances, i.e. exogenous means.
Is that purely down to the drugs though? It might just be a case of the sober work having taken place after further intellectual development.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
Yeah I don't think its primarily because of the drugs. I think the drugs just gave me a nudge, initially inspired the ongoing sober work since then. Most of the progress is attributable to intellectual and philosophic effort, including the kind of waking meditation I'm talking about, which was largely devised in a hyperconceptual/poststructural way, i.e. intellectual.
 
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